And so it begins

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saintsRrising
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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972613Post saintsRrising »

B.M wrote: Fri 05 Aug 2022 6:27pm How much impact did Barassi have in Melbourne and Sydney?

Jeans at Richmond

Pagan at Carlton

Malthouse at Carlton

Was Tony Jewel a good coach

Was Robert Walls a good coach

Alex Jesalenko?

Or conversely was Alan Joyce a GREAT coach?

I think coaches are important

But not the reason for good or bad performance

That comes down to the playing groups ability

Norm Smith stated the he thought Len was a better coach than him. He was just lucky that he was at Melbourne at the time!
There is absolutely no one saying that a good coach is the only reason for success.

So I do not at all understand why you keep railing against comments on coaching. After all even you state " I think coaches are important " If they are important then that means that they influence the players and the team. And that influence can therefore also be a good influence, or a negative one.

As such it is also obvious that as individuals are different that if one can get a better coach, or assistant coach, or development coach etc that the individual players, as well as team, will benefit.


Sinclair is for example quite possibly a very self-driven player, but if the coaches are not a good coaching unit he will not be able to combine with his team mates as well as he could.
Last edited by saintsRrising on Fri 05 Aug 2022 6:56pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972614Post B.M »

Alan Joyce was a dual premiership coach - sacked not long after his second flag and went to the dogs and was sacked shortly after that!

Was he a great coach from 88-92
Then a poor coach from 93-96???

Most premiership coaches were eventually sacked and or had really poor seasons throughout their careers?!
They weren’t any better or worse coaches in those years. The only difference- the playing group quality


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972617Post Devilhead »

Tigers made a few coaching moves in 2017 and then bang ..... 3 Premierships


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972622Post B.M »

What moves were they?

Give Dusty the ball???

Imo the most important person in Richmonds success = Dustin Martin

I just think that there is this notion in AGL that the coach is responsible for results in AFL footy. Which I just don’t believe is the case.

I believe there are multiple factors, none more important than the list and injuries

Therefore
Recruiting and list management is far more important to me. Get the right players, you’ll get results!

The one thing every premiership coach has in common
A great team

You don’t have a great team, it doesn’t matter a fk who’s coaching!

I honestly just think people like a scapegoat


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972625Post cwrcyn »

Alan Joyce was an old style sergeant major. Rigid and unreasonable, bordering on malevolent. A really naaty operator. Despised by just about everyone who played under him. Jason Dunstall would have left Hawthorn if Joyce wasn't moved on.

They won in spite of him. They had so much talent.


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972629Post freely »

nobhead wrote: Fri 05 Aug 2022 9:54am Imo be good if dal ,joey, or roo could come back and give saints a chop out as an assistant coach .
spare us. we've already done as much damage as possible going this route in the women's comp


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972630Post freely »

B.M wrote: Fri 05 Aug 2022 6:55pm Alan Joyce was a dual premiership coach - sacked not long after his second flag and went to the dogs and was sacked shortly after that!

Was he a great coach from 88-92
Then a poor coach from 93-96???

Most premiership coaches were eventually sacked and or had really poor seasons throughout their careers?!
They weren’t any better or worse coaches in those years. The only difference- the playing group quality
No - not the only difference. game style changes. why does it? because coaches have new ideas. if you've got a coach who can't change with the times, you've got a dud. even teflon isn't championing lyon for our club now. does that mean teflon doesn't think lyon was a good coach? i don't think so.


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972642Post D.B.Cooper »

B.M wrote: Fri 05 Aug 2022 6:27pm How much impact did Barassi have in Melbourne and Sydney?

Jeans at Richmond

Pagan at Carlton

Malthouse at Carlton

Was Tony Jewel a good coach

Was Robert Walls a good coach

Alex Jesalenko?

Or conversely was Alan Joyce a GREAT coach?

I think coaches are important

But not the reason for good or bad performance

That comes down to the playing groups ability

Norm Smith stated the he thought Len was a better coach than him. He was just lucky that he was at Melbourne at the time!
I think you are agreeing with Barrassi’s comments.

The coach can’t make a difference without the cattle, but plenty of talented teams don’t win it.

If you have the talent and the club is aligned the coach can clearly make a difference.


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972647Post Wayne42 »

And so it begins.

Who would have thought that would be the catalyst for self absorption.


The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972648Post Devilhead »

B.M wrote: Fri 05 Aug 2022 7:58pm What moves were they?

Give Dusty the ball???

Imo the most important person in Richmonds success = Dustin Martin

I just think that there is this notion in AGL that the coach is responsible for results in AFL footy. Which I just don’t believe is the case.

I believe there are multiple factors, none more important than the list and injuries

Therefore
Recruiting and list management is far more important to me. Get the right players, you’ll get results!

The one thing every premiership coach has in common
A great team

You don’t have a great team, it doesn’t matter a fk who’s coaching!

I honestly just think people like a scapegoat
Were Richmond a great team at the end of 2016?

https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/1101 ... -structure


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972651Post Teflon »

Jacks Back wrote: Fri 05 Aug 2022 7:58am Seems strange timing. We are, after all, still in the finals race.
In spirit only


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972653Post Teflon »

thread hijacked by theorists
Tony anymore sackings?
Need blood after this years slide
Watching pies v dees feel depressed like we are miles off that footy


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972671Post Wayne42 »

Teflon wrote: Fri 05 Aug 2022 11:41pm thread hijacked by theorists
Tony anymore sackings?
Need blood after this years slide
Watching pies v dees feel depressed like we are miles off that footy
Too many many players on our list that are barely VFL standard. Luckily we have gags as our list guru.

Oh, i wonder who helped create the list we have, gags, any idea ?


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972707Post B.M »

I blame Alan Richardson

Then again we sacked him and what?


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972709Post Teflon »

B.M wrote: Sat 06 Aug 2022 1:27am I blame Alan Richardson

Then again we sacked him and what?
Bad coaches aren’t to blame
Bad judgment on those selecting bad coaches are to blame
We replaced Alan with Alan 2.0
Cause he’s nice , he hung round Clarko so must’ve learnt something
We don’t like being ruthless to pursue glory we want the AFL to like us for being steady as she goes, good woke citizens that don’t even complain when weekly shafted by umps
Irrelevant really .


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972712Post B.M »

Teflon

Honest question

What do you think a ‘great coach’ would do with this list?


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972718Post Scollop »

B.M wrote: Fri 05 Aug 2022 7:58pm What moves were they?

Give Dusty the ball???

Imo the most important person in Richmonds success = Dustin Martin

I just think that there is this notion in AGL that the coach is responsible for results in AFL footy. Which I just don’t believe is the case.

I believe there are multiple factors, none more important than the list and injuries

Therefore
Recruiting and list management is far more important to me. Get the right players, you’ll get results!

The one thing every premiership coach has in common
A great team

You don’t have a great team, it doesn’t matter a fk who’s coaching!

I honestly just think people like a scapegoat
If you need a circuit breaker, sometimes change is necessary. Was McGlynn doing a great job?

Choco was the scapegoat at Richmond along with 2 other assistants at the end of 2016 but I think he did a great job with the development of guy like Dusty and Jack Roo and Alex Rance etc..

If the head coach wants change and he is staying and the football department bosses want change then it is inevitable


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972721Post D.B.Cooper »

B.M wrote: Fri 05 Aug 2022 6:27pm

Jeans at Richmond

Jeans at St Kilda?

Was Jeans a great coach at StKilda?
Did he get the best out of his talent base?

Did Jeans cost us the 1971 flag by not making a move on Keddie? Keddie kicked 4 last quarter goals and missed two sitters.

I bet the 1971 fan forum went into melt down that night on Cat Colling.

Did Stan cost us the 1997 flag by not moving Burke onto Jarman.

Keddie/Jarman deja vu.


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972736Post Vortex »

Teflon wrote: Sat 06 Aug 2022 1:47am
B.M wrote: Sat 06 Aug 2022 1:27am I blame Alan Richardson

Then again we sacked him and what?
Bad coaches aren’t to blame
Bad judgment on those selecting bad coaches are to blame
We replaced Alan with Alan 2.0
Cause he’s nice , he hung round Clarko so must’ve learnt something
We don’t like being ruthless to pursue glory we want the AFL to like us for being steady as she goes, good woke citizens that don’t even complain when weekly shafted by umps
Irrelevant really .
But you can't put your vision forward for how you would fix it, like actual ideas of change both to the organisation and personnel, one that you don't read in the HS. I'm guessing you've got one, and it's probably really close to Roos, get Clarko and watch the flags roll in.


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972737Post Teflon »

B.M wrote: Sat 06 Aug 2022 4:35am Teflon

Honest question

What do you think a ‘great coach’ would do with this list?
3 things really

1. Demand a better list to suit a gane style he wants to install (Clarkson did just that)

2. Develop a recognisable game plan that suits his current list capabilities

3. Ensure at a minimum effort is maintained by demanding standards and dropping any player that doesn’t adhere …as Riewoldt says effort is non negotiable- choosing to turn up some weeks/qtrs is on the coach…..you can either get it out of them, get them to buy in or you can’t. I don’t believe this group has bought into Ratten ….it looks since the bye they don’t believe…

You seem to fail to grasp that a head AFL coaches job extends far beyond match day…


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972742Post whiskers3614 »

Ratten looks great at making excuses

last year- not Hill's fault he's not getting the ball delivered on a platter.
this year-the nasty media are picking on us, accepting no responsibility for either the coaches or players for some putrid recent performances.
Is this excuse making giving players license for more half hearted effort?


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972745Post spert »

I think Alan Jeans had little or no coaching experience when he suggested to the board that he could take on the coaching back in the '60s. One factor to winning is having a balanced team, and at least one quality, class player across every line from back through to forward..and a bit of physical toughness of course- we had that in '66. We have weaknesses everywhere and until that is addressed, we going to flop around the middle of the ladder. I think our backline is better than a lot give it credit for, and the issues are from midfield forward.
I worry about how the team can look really together in one half, then look like a different team in the next half, and that has cost us games we should have won- it's not all down to players and the coach has to wear that...he is the coach of the team.


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972748Post Vortex »

Teflon wrote: Sat 06 Aug 2022 10:43am
B.M wrote: Sat 06 Aug 2022 4:35am Teflon

Honest question

What do you think a ‘great coach’ would do with this list?
3 things really

1. Demand a better list to suit a gane style he wants to install (Clarkson did just that)

2. Develop a recognisable game plan that suits his current list capabilities

3. Ensure at a minimum effort is maintained by demanding standards and dropping any player that doesn’t adhere …as Riewoldt says effort is non negotiable- choosing to turn up some weeks/qtrs is on the coach…..you can either get it out of them, get them to buy in or you can’t. I don’t believe this group has bought into Ratten ….it looks since the bye they don’t believe…

You seem to fail to grasp that a head AFL coaches job extends far beyond match day…
Somewould should email your plan to the club, I'm damn sure not one person at the lunch has thoufh of the idea to "demand" a better list. Do innovative, I wonder why other clubs aren't doing it. I can feel a second flag is possible with that plan.


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972753Post Teflon »

Vortex wrote: Sat 06 Aug 2022 11:36am
Teflon wrote: Sat 06 Aug 2022 10:43am
B.M wrote: Sat 06 Aug 2022 4:35am Teflon

Honest question

What do you think a ‘great coach’ would do with this list?
3 things really

1. Demand a better list to suit a gane style he wants to install (Clarkson did just that)

2. Develop a recognisable game plan that suits his current list capabilities

3. Ensure at a minimum effort is maintained by demanding standards and dropping any player that doesn’t adhere …as Riewoldt says effort is non negotiable- choosing to turn up some weeks/qtrs is on the coach…..you can either get it out of them, get them to buy in or you can’t. I don’t believe this group has bought into Ratten ….it looks since the bye they don’t believe…

You seem to fail to grasp that a head AFL coaches job extends far beyond match day…
Somewould should email your plan to the club, I'm damn sure not one person at the lunch has thoufh of the idea to "demand" a better list. Do innovative, I wonder why other clubs aren't doing it. I can feel a second flag is possible with that plan.
I’ve emailed the club and suggested Cooper Sharman be delisted after 7 games cause Vort the ss orifice has deemed it so! How bout that for list management!!!


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Re: And so it begins

Post: # 1972778Post B.M »

Coaches demand?

Interesting?

What I meant was how many wins would a ‘great coach’ get in a season with the CURRENT list?

Because I’d say 10-12


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