Trade - Draft Discussion

[Ghost Like]

Yeah, I saw that rating. You never know, a deal may be done as late as draft night if our recruiters want him. I hope we can get him, he's done everything asked of him at every level.

[saintsRrising]

Pick him up with our first rounder

Current rankings have Mackenzie possibly going before our pick.

Even with us losing all 3 games and sliding lowest we can finish is say 12th if Port win all 3 of theirs and GC win at least two which seems unlikely.

[saynta]

Pick him up with our first rounder

Current rankings have Mackenzie possibly going before our pick.

Even with us losing all 3 games and sliding lowest we can finish is say 12th if Port win all 3 of theirs and GC win at least two which seems unlikely.

[saynta]

Pick him up with our first rounder

Current rankings have Mackenzie possibly going before our pick.

Even with us losing all 3 games and sliding lowest we can finish is say 12th if Port win all 3 of theirs and GC win at least two which seems unlikely.

Kevin Sheehan in his latest top 30 ranks him 5th best young talent.

"5. Cameron Mackenzie

Avg. Ranking Points in U18 National Championships: 112 points (3 games)

Sandringham Dragons/Beaumaris FC/Brighton Grammar

H: 187cm, W: 80kg, DOB: 21/01/04

A medium midfielder or defender, Mackenzie was an early draft bolter this year after starting the season in outstanding form with the Dragons in the NAB League, as well as playing some good school football with Brighton Grammar. Part of St Kilda’s Next Generation Academy, he has great speed and composure, while also being a neat disposer of the ball. Across three national championships games for Vic Metro, Mackenzie averaged 26.3 disposals, 6.3 score involvements and four clearances. ?

Time for another back injury?

[Impatient Sainter]

Scott Bielby a 2021 NGA has been quietly improving with Sandringham Zebras, I wonder if he is a chance to get picked up as a Cat B Rookie this year? We obviously have a vacancy with Kyle deciding it wasnt for him.

[Devilhead]

Forget about trading ..... go to the draft .... looking like 1st pick will be 9 or 10 (not taking into account f-s picks)

1st pick - best mid or best power forward (whatever is rated better)
2nd pick - whatever we don't take with the 1st pick
3rd pick - best young back or best mid available (whatever is rated better)
4th pick - whatever we don't take with the 3rd pick

[PADDLEPOP1001]

Our first draft pick & NWM for Adelaide’s 1st +?!

[saynta]

Our first draft pick & NWM for Adelaide’s 1st +?!

NFW for NWM. (NFW=No f****** Way)

[saynta]

Scott Bielby a 2021 NGA has been quietly improving with Sandringham Zebras, I wonder if he is a chance to get picked up as a Cat B Rookie this year? We obviously have a vacancy with Kyle deciding it wasnt for him.

I would pick up young Milne too.

[PADDLEPOP1001]

Our first draft pick & NWM for Adelaide’s 1st +?!

NFW for NWM. (NFW=No f****** Way)

I would love to keep him but he hasn’t signed & there are rumours he is homesick just would like them to have an open & honest convo with him we do not want another Cripps scenario where we get SFU for a good draft pick,I think we all know he can play,it’s just where!?

[saynta]

Scott Bielby a 2021 NGA has been quietly improving with Sandringham Zebras, I wonder if he is a chance to get picked up as a Cat B Rookie this year? We obviously have a vacancy with Kyle deciding it wasnt for him.

Watched him play today. Good young prospect.Quick and not a bad kick.

[groupie1]

Rookie Central top 25 rankings -

https://central.rookieme.com/afl/power- ... june-2022/

Not a lot of key position players around our pick, but plenty of midfielders if we take our 1st round pick to this years draft.

Wonder if Cam McKenzie will be in the conversation for our first pick…likely the only way we can get him with the new NGA rules in play!

What are the new NGA rules?

[CQ SAINT]

No concession inside pick 40 I think.

[Sanctorum]

The following comment I made in another discussion about who St Kilda could consider trading out for Cameron McKenzie is probably more suitable on this page:

"I know it borders on sacrilege but believe the only experienced well ranked player that would attract plenty of interest and offer a decent trade pick is Gresham who's RFA next year so may well move to another club then anyway. I base this purely on the importance to recruit projected NAB draft #6 Cameron McKenzie who could well be a cracker and emulate Windhager and Owens in his first year:

https://www.afl.com.au/news/807032/cal- ... ly-ranking

Tough call, but it's all about building a much stronger list!"

It comes down to a question of how good Cameron McKenzie really is, and whether or not he will is in the same class as Wanganeen-Milera, Windhager and Owens.

If the answer is in the affirmative then securing him with the 1st round draft pick by trading Gresham then I for one would support that.

I'm not anti-Gresham, he is certainly a very good player, a bit selfish probalby and not always a team player, but he's far from being rated elite and it's absolutely imperative that the list is an urgent need to add to the existing quartet of Steele, Sinclair, Marshall and King all of who are there already or have the potential to get to that level.

List management is by far the most important aspect of becoming a better team and premiership contender. Right now St Kilda is a long way off from having a core of elite players on the list. It is my firm belief that in order to achieve this the club needs to be prepared to be utterly ruthless and consider all options, including trading away one or more good players.

It's happened before at other clubs, this is exactly what Collingwood did a few years ago and look where they are this year.

Just like playing a fast and high pressure brand of football to win games, the same aggressive philosophy has to be adopted in building a successful team and in November last year the Saints finally, finally, did that when they picked up the young talented blokes who have played so well in their first year.

[groupie1]

I've been looking at all these ideas with interest.

I'm not sure we're in that bad a spot.

The way I see it, with the list's age profile, we need to go hard and fast while also investing in youth (of course, the utopian situation).

But here's my idea:

I wouldn't trade Gresh. He's one of the two burst midfielders we have (the other being Jones) and we struggled to win clearance when both were missing last year.

If NWM is home sick, trade him to Adelaide NOW, for their 1st pick. (He's about worth that).

Use that pick to get our best available draftee, and our pick to trade for Taranto, big money, tenure... just get him. He's a good age.

Look to trade Billings +/or Ross to a stupid club who think they're close... like Essendope. See if we can get in another late 20s pick. And take those two late twenties picks to the draft.

Bring in FAs in De Goey & Amon. Look seriously at Bobby Hill. Even take a swing for Bailey Smith.

Delisting Gears, Kent, pay out Alison and delist.

And give Bytel and Connolly a game in the last round - they went OK last week. (Crouch is out and Webster is out).

I'd also look to free up spots elsewhere... do we trade Jones, Webster, Byrnes, etc.?
Keep Campbell and keep Ryder.

Invest heavily in Clark and Coffield, Owens and Windy, draftees, Bytel & Connolly, Heath for the future.

Hunter Clark getting his body and mind right could be big, enhanced by Owens, Windy, draftee 1 at least, plus the FAs and Taranto.

I see a clear path to topping up as well as getting the list younger.

[Impatient Sainter]

The club needs to make some tough list and assistant coaching calls, or they will continue on the same trajectory of mediocrity.

Hopefully NWM can be swayed to remain at the club.

Agree we need to go after the free agents De Goey & Amon, but off load Hill to release some $$$.

Hill is the player I would be doing my absolute best to move on. His salary vs output are embarrassing, the club may even have to pay some of his salary but he has to go!

Ryder & Hannebery need to be told to retire, then find another ruckman somewhere and keep Campbell on for another year as back up. Max Heath needs more time but he will be our No 1 ruckman in time.

Billings is stale and needs a fresh start and a new club. If possible trade to Port Power for a swap for Bergman and exchange of picks.

Gresham is a ball butcher and if we can attract Taranto to the club, I would trade Gresham to GWS in a direct swap.
Taranto is more of a genuine midfielder and can go forward and kick goals which we desperately need. GWS will be looking for a small forward after losing Bobby Hill so Gresham will be attractive to them.

Jones is a natural HBF (straight line player) who the club tried to turn into a midfielder, he needs to be returned to the position before giving up on him.

So from some where we need to find another ruckman preferably one who can rotate forward, midfielders (FA & trade), a key defender and another key forward. Jack Hayes might fill the key forward role, but we need another.

[Life Long Saint]

If NWM is home sick, trade him to Adelaide NOW, for their 1st pick. (He's about worth that).

I wouldn't expect pick 6 for NWM from the Crows.
We took him at pick 11 and I'm not sure he's really set the world of on fire enough to warrant a five pick jump.

[Life Long Saint]

Gresham is a ball butcher and if we can attract Taranto to the club, I would trade Gresham to GWS in a direct swap.
Taranto is more of a genuine midfielder and can go forward and kick goals which we desperately need. GWS will be looking for a small forward after losing Bobby Hill so Gresham will be attractive to them.

So, why on Earth would GWS do that then? Why would you trade a class act for a player that is a "ball butcher"?
Gresham is at his best when used in bursts in the middle. Get more midfielders in and let Gresh be the attacking half forward that he his.

[Sanctorum]

This is a very good discussion and plenty of sensible suggestions about the way St Kilda can improve it's list through drafts and trades at the end of the year.

I can't see Billings and Ross being of interest to other teams, even the lower ones - JB is signed to end 2025 on what I believe is a high figure, weren't both Ross and Billings offered to other clubs in the past 2 years without a nibble?

Jones has had a bad run with injuries and off-field issues over the past 2 years that have seriously affected his performance, once he strings a lot more games together he'll be a much better contributor.

Wanganee-Milera? I don't know, he's shown plenty so far to believe that he'll become an elite player. If it's true that he's homesick the club has sufficient support staff and special programmes for indigenous players to sort that out, after all, he's only in his first year away from home in Adelaide so that's to be expected.

I agree that there is much that the club can do to improve on this year's record, so a lot to look forward to - but isn't that we say at the end of the season every year

[saynta]

I tend to think that stories of Billings and Ross been offered around are just pure fantasy. Made up bulls*** stories by arsehole keyboard warriors trying to maintain some sort of make believe credibility or relevance in their own minds.

[groupie1]

If NWM is home sick, trade him to Adelaide NOW, for their 1st pick. (He's about worth that).

I wouldn't expect pick 6 for NWM from the Crows.
We took him at pick 11 and I'm not sure he's really set the world of on fire enough to warrant a five pick jump.

Well... I recall him being pick 9, but either way, don't you think a top 10ish pick with a year of senior development that shows his skill level would be worth at the very least an equivalent pick, but likely more?

I take your point: he's not exactly shown a Rowell-level first year.

[Life Long Saint]

If NWM is home sick, trade him to Adelaide NOW, for their 1st pick. (He's about worth that).

I wouldn't expect pick 6 for NWM from the Crows.
We took him at pick 11 and I'm not sure he's really set the world of on fire enough to warrant a five pick jump.

Well... I recall him being pick 9, but either way, don't you think a top 10ish pick with a year of senior development that shows his skill level would be worth at the very least an equivalent pick, but likely more?

I take your point: he's not exactly shown a Rowell-level first year.

Would have been pick 9 but the Daicos and Darcy F/S selections shuffled them all down two.

[CQ SAINT]

I tend to think that stories of Billings and Ross been offered around are just pure fantasy. Made up bulls*** stories by arsehole keyboard warriors trying to maintain some sort of make believe credibility or relevance in their own minds.

Was told by one of our sponsors at the Legends function that Seb's manager was approached by an interstate club and they offered substantially more than St.Kilda to lure him.

He had no interest in going interstate and his manager then gauged interest in Victoria and there was no significant benefit to St.Kilda in compensation or to him financially so he re-signed but most clubs were interested.

Very happy with that outcome, if it is true. He is in our top 5 and has been for a long time.

[saynta]

I tend to think that stories of Billings and Ross been offered around are just pure fantasy. Made up bulls*** stories by arsehole keyboard warriors trying to maintain some sort of make believe credibility or relevance in their own minds.

Was told by one of our sponsors at the Legends function that Seb's manager was approached by an interstate club and they offered substantially more than St.Kilda to lure him.

He had no interest in going interstate and his manager then gauged interest in Victoria and there was no significant benefit to St.Kilda in compensation or to him financially so he re-signed but most clubs were interested.

Very happy with that outcome, if it is true. He is in our top 5 and has been for a long time.

Thank you CQ Saint. That is a lot different situation than the bulls*** stories than the Saints themselves were shopping him aroumd.

[Impatient Sainter]

Did anyone else know that Easterns Lewis Hayes was Jack Hayes's younger brother?

Lewis Hayes - (Eastern) - 197cm 81kg - high disposal KPD, interceptor, possibly the best KPD in the pool? beat opponents for VM all carnival, brother of StKilda Hayes, good defensive abilities, spoils ect, high DE% kicking, so good and careful disposal, likely 1st round