Is Ratten safe?

[Teflon]

IF we suffer another couple of 12-15 goal smackings in the last 9 rounds is Ratten safe or do we say it’s a bridge too far and cut our losses??

It’s hard to sack coaches who took you to a finals win 12 months ago (albeit in a strange...shorter year..,)

I like him would love him to succeed but I’m also worried that he hasn’t improved defensively on what he did when his teams there were bottom 4 defensively....we all know you need defence to win and go deep in finals. I’m not interested finishing 6-8 for the odd finals win....

It feels like that he’s safe , that we will (and should) certainly strip out the coaching panel that’s been there since Richo days.....but IF we get belted on multiple occasions (a real possibility).....does he stay ? Or does it become untenable???

[spert]

IF we suffer another couple of 12-15 goal smackings in the last 9 rounds is Ratten safe or do we say it’s a bridge too far and cut our losses??

It’s hard to sack coaches who took you to a finals win 12 months ago (albeit in a strange...shorter year..,)

I like him would love him to succeed but I’m also worried that he hasn’t improved defensively on what he did when his teams there were bottom 4 defensively....we all know you need defence to win and go deep in finals. I’m not interested finishing 6-8 for the odd finals win....

It feels like that he’s safe , that we will (and should) certainly strip out the coaching panel that’s been there since Richo days.....but IF we get belted on multiple occasions (a real possibility).....does he stay ? Or does it become untenable???

Appears to be a very poor defensive coach IMO, and so far this season, the team doesn't not look well-drilled in its play and a bit too much of throwing caution to the wind in ball movement going up the ground. Sure we have injuries, but I don't think the players have anything to fall back on when the going gets tough and too many drop their heads. This is something a coach is there to do as a core job, and I don't reckon Ratts knows how to use the players he has. AFL must be the only sport where a head coach can survive multiple bad efforts- he is an nice bloke, but would be gone by now in most other pro sports.

[skeptic]

For me...
as long as he makes big changes in the off-season, I’d say yes.

We’re injury ravaged with a list that lacks depth

Realistically you have to expect some bad outcomes

We won a final last year... he clearly deserves an opportunity to recover

[older saint]

If he wears a mask, social distances and gets tested if he has symptoms he should be fine

[Teflon]

What support could u wrap around him if we accept defensive structure is a weakness? A Buckley in a football boss role...v good defensively..,,

[Impatient Sainter]

One word 'ABSOLUTELY'. He hasn't had his best side to pick from all year, plus IMO the team went into the season completely under done fitness wise. Tony74 suggested two assistants will get the push over the bye and another two at seasons end.

Lets see how Ratts goes with a refreshed coaching panel and a fit and available team. I believe things will change quickly for the positive and we wont be having these discussions. Take the equilavence of Marshall, Jones & Paton out of Melbourne Gawn, Petracca & Salem and see how the Dees go? Ratts is a good coach, this year has tested his resilience but he will bounce back!

[Teflon]

One word 'ABSOLUTELY'. He hasn't had his best side to pick from all year, plus IMO the team went into the season completely under done fitness wise. Tony74 suggested two assistants will get the push over the bye and another two at seasons end.

Lets see how Ratts goes with a refreshed coaching panel and a fit and available team. I believe things will change quickly for the positive and we wont be having these discussions. Take the equilavence of Marshall, Jones & Paton out of Melbourne Gawn, Petracca & Salem and see how the Dees go? Ratts is a good coach, this year has tested his resilience but he will bounce back!

I missed where To y said we were pushing 2 assistants over the bye and 2 more end year - what thread ?
I’d also ask questions of our fitness staff..
And recruiting get this year Libba so better get it right

[Teflon]

My wish: a refresh with new assistant coaches a review into fitness pre season program and hopefully 2 or 3 picks in the top 20 of the draft

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Barrret is right here, though, as I've said elsewhere, no review is necessary when the truth is so obvious to all.

"If it is good enough for Carlton to turn itself inside out and upside down, then the Saints need to, too. In a season which has already seen them lose four matches by nine goals or more, Saturday night's capitulation against Adelaide was arguably their worst performance.

The Crows had not scored even a behind well into the second quarter, trailed by 36 points twice, as late as the third quarter. And yet with a match total of 66 points (9.12), won by six. St Kilda didn't have access to key players Rowan Marshall, Jade Gresham, Zak Jones, Tim Membrey, Seb Ross, Jarryn Geary, Ben Paton and Jake Carlisle. But this was the loss of a team which is lost. The review should incorporate recruiting, too, not just the match-day workings of the football department."

[Scollop]

One word 'ABSOLUTELY'. He hasn't had his best side to pick from all year, plus IMO the team went into the season completely under done fitness wise. Tony74 suggested two assistants will get the push over the bye and another two at seasons end.

Lets see how Ratts goes with a refreshed coaching panel and a fit and available team. I believe things will change quickly for the positive and we wont be having these discussions. Take the equilavence of Marshall, Jones & Paton out of Melbourne Gawn, Petracca & Salem and see how the Dees go? Ratts is a good coach, this year has tested his resilience but he will bounce back!

I missed where To y said we were pushing 2 assistants over the bye and 2 more end year - what thread ?
I’d also ask questions of our fitness staff..
And recruiting get this year Libba so better get it right

There are some very good posts below...including the op by skeptic and a contribution by Vazelos

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... 8#p1908778

[older saint]

Leppitch could be a good option, Harvey if he misses out on Collingwood job,

[Crossy66]

My wish: a refresh with new assistant coaches a review into fitness pre season program and hopefully 2 or 3 picks in the top 20 of the draft

Perfect

[shanegrambeau]

For me...
as long as he makes big changes in the off-season, I’d say yes.

We’re injury ravaged with a list that lacks depth

Realistically you have to expect some bad outcomes

We won a final last year... he clearly deserves an opportunity to recover

I don’t agree with this.

Of course, changes are welcome and needed.
But it is not the structure that is wrong. When I say structure, I mean hardware.

We have the hardware to put us ahead by 36 points twice,
But the software?

The dynamic in the team is really vulnerable.

So I think the coaching has to be questioned. Or the mix between the man and his troops. It could come hood, as in Goodwin-like-good. But there is no evidence yet.

Teams without the hardware are like North, they are lagging behind in most of the match but keep battling.

We can be off the charts winning and then just drop our bundle..Something isn’t right in the coaching department although it’s none of Ratts fault that the players and injuries are what they are.

We could also say, Ratts is doing something very right, in order for us to bet these promising leads in games, but it’s like a rudderless ship if it all just turns and we can do nothing but roll over.

[B.M]

Why were the assistants ok last year and not this year?

Are we looking for someone to blame??

We don’t want it be Ratts, because he replaced the last person who was to blame!

I reckon coaching has 5% to do with how we are going, and Ratts is responsible for that

[shanegrambeau]

Why were the assistants ok last year and not this year?

Are we looking for someone to blame??

We don’t want it be Ratts, because he replaced the last person who was to blame!

I reckon coaching has 5% to do with how we are going, and Ratts is responsible for that

I don’t agree with 5% either.. Why did Richo leave? Nit we have seen some really malingned coaches (Hardwick, Goodwin, Buckley too) get fantastic results long after the drums were beating for their demise.

[SaintDippa]

The coach holds the ultimate responsibility for game style, structures, ball movement strategies, F50 entries, etc. Teaching and enforcing the game style and team rules.
Watch the top sides play then watch us. Ratts is responsible for our dramatic slide.
Ratten safe? I'd be applying the blow touch on Ratten asking what the hell is going on.

[shanegrambeau]

The coach holds the ultimate responsibility for game style, structures, ball movement strategies, F50 entries, etc. Teaching and enforcing the game style and team rules.
Watch the top sides play then watch us. Ratts is responsible for our dramatic slide.
Ratten safe? I'd be applying the blow touch on Ratten asking what the hell is going on.

It could be,
1) it will take Ratts time??
2) we have a ‘bad class of kids’

We have a lot of orphans from the glitzy side of the street who may have a hard time not taking advantage of our less than imposing cultural legacy…if you can get my drift

Then we have ‘unmade’ players. Players not fully matured and hardened.

Then we have mediocrity too..just a lot of lemons on the semi trailer. And it’s being pulled by an old Bedford…not a brand new Mac truck like West Coast and Richmond etc

[tony74]

My wish: a refresh with new assistant coaches a review into fitness pre season program and hopefully 2 or 3 picks in the top 20 of the draft

Perfect

Pretty well nailed it although our fitness is nowhere near as bad as people are making out. When you don’t have the ball you look unfit and slow.

[bigcarl]

I'd give him another year.

The season has been disastrous, no doubt. There aren't excuses, but there are reasons.

We've a shocking run with injuries to the very players we could least afford to lose. Among them Marshall, Carlisle, Gresham, Jones, and Paton.

That's the CHF, the CHB (who may be finished now), two midfield playmakers with X-factor and breakaway speed, plus a mainstay of defence who was excellent last season. There goes your structure.

And we had a very poor start to the season. Momentum is so important and no Ryder or Marshall set us off on completely the wrong foot.

Let's see how we go next year. Hopefully we we get a much better run with injury and a far better start.

We need to recruit to cover our deficiencies. A CHB for a start.

[Laurie]

Yes i believe so although a couple of his assistants would be a little nervous.
Hamill and Skobalak need to be replaced.
Injuries have not been kind to us as well this year.

[Saintly66]

One word 'ABSOLUTELY'. He hasn't had his best side to pick from all year, plus IMO the team went into the season completely under done fitness wise. Tony74 suggested two assistants will get the push over the bye and another two at seasons end.

Lets see how Ratts goes with a refreshed coaching panel and a fit and available team. I believe things will change quickly for the positive and we wont be having these discussions. Take the equilavence of Marshall, Jones & Paton out of Melbourne Gawn, Petracca & Salem and see how the Dees go? Ratts is a good coach, this year has tested his resilience but he will bounce back!

Couldn’t agree more, let’s stick with him and turf this bs at St Kilda of sacking coaches. Imagine Richmond had of gotten rid of Hardwick.

[B.M]

What happens when we replace the assistants and continue on current form… then what??

Are we considering going through another rebuild?

Did Melbourne go through another rebuild, when they dropped out of the 8

The real question
Why did we make the 8 in 2020
What changed in 2021

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Players not sticking tackles, players not running, players not contesting, players doing banana kicks from a slight angle.

All these are players showing disrespect for the coach.

For some reason Ratten isn't commanding respect. Possibly because he just doesn't make the players fear him.

That's sobering.

[shanegrambeau]

Yes i believe so although a couple of his assistants would be a little nervous.
Hamill and Skobalak need to be replaced.
Injuries have not been kind to us as well this year.

Roughead should be nervous.

Who is responsible for the haphazard kick selection technique. A complete lack of discipline. Lonie's shot selection ...ffs...Higgins and Max...look at their run ups!

[freely]

I'd say he's safe. I don't think he should ever have been appointed. And the same lousy decision makers are still calling the shots. So yeah we'll let him keep taking a wage no doubt same as all these other blow-ins.