List profile = Reality check

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The Recruit
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List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905445Post The Recruit »

Maybe we need to start focusing on who is on the list and where they were drafted instead of who we missed.

Mcartin seemingly killed us in 2014, but Steele & Howard makes up for that in a way.......then we chose to trade our first rnd pick in 2016. So we r behind at least 2 years.

So really the build is ahead of schedule to have the list we do now, it has been excellent trading to set up our team up for young kids and high picks over the next two years.

Our rebuild started in 2014 in many ways, our senior talent is very very thin (Hill,Ross, Memb, Billings)

Players that will b in our side next finals tilt.....

2011 - Hill, Ross, Webster
2012 - Membry,
2013 - Jones, Dunstan, Billings (edit)
2014 - Steele, Lonie, Butler, Howard, Sinclair
2015 - Gresham
2016 - Long, Battle
2017 - Clark, Coffield, Higgins, Calvarino, Paton, Marshall
2018 - King, Bytel
2019 - Burnes, Connolly, Wilkie

2016 draft we could have chose instead of Carlisle & Gresham -

6 Essendon Aaron Francis
7 GWS Jacob Hopper
8 Gold Coast Callum Ah Chee
9 Melbourne Sam Weideman
10 Carlton Harry McKay
11 Adelaide Wayne Milera
12 Carlton Charlie Curnow
13 GWS Matthew Kennedy
14 Brisbane Eric Hipwood
15 Richmond Daniel Rioli
16 GWS Harrison Himmelberg
17 Adelaide Tom Doedee)

So what do we need

At least 8 new young players in the next two years. From them, 1 elite mid, hopefully 2.

At least 3-5 25-29 year olds who can play roles and are reliable good players (maybe Wood comes good and maybe Highmore, can’t see any others).

A good tap ruckman (marshal is crucial forward)

That’s at least 14-15 players in two-three years.

I am hopeful the club gets this right and doesn’t think we only need 2-3 more players to be a consistent finals team. We need 15.
Last edited by The Recruit on Mon 31 May 2021 3:40pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905519Post cwrcyn »

if we can snaffle 3 or 4 players in two years who can become regular senior players we will have done well. If we can get six I'll be stunned, but 14 or 15 is beyond any club. It's never been done, as far as I know. Can't see how you can get 15 AFL standard players in two years when the draft pool is so thin


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905521Post cwrcyn »

Our draft picks this year will be woeful. Pick 8 and pick 52, something like that?? If we had three top ten picks like Essendon did last year, I'd be optimistic. The reality is that we need quality young talent but have insufficient draft picks to get them


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905522Post Wayne42 »

The list managers had 11 players come off the 2020 list at years end. They didn't, or couldn't fill all those list vacancies in the trade and draft periods, i can't see them
having a big turnover at the end of 2021 considering we already have about 4 spots to fill, it might even be 5 now that Robbo has retired.


The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905550Post B.M »

Are those year correct

Ross was 2012 wasn’t he

Billings was definitely 2013


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905552Post silverhalo »

cwrcyn wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 8:02pm Our draft picks this year will be woeful. Pick 8 and pick 52, something like that?? If we had three top ten picks like Essendon did last year, I'd be optimistic. The reality is that we need quality young talent but have insufficient draft picks to get them
We need to trade out a couple of half decent experienced players for picks, simple as that


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905564Post B.M »

Why get rid of decent players for picks?

We got rid of McEvoy for picks (18)

We got pick 12 for Goddard

We Got pick 21 for Stanley

We got pick 25 for Dal

Would have been better off keeping all of them!

Picks are NO guarantee

You don’t get better by trading out your good players

Ie/ trade out Billings or Ross for a second round pick
The second round picks we have are Dunstan and Long... would you do those trades

IMO
Draft well with the picks you’ve got
Trade smart to pick up young talent - targeted recruiting
Keep your good players


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905567Post The_Dud »

I’m a huge fan of Billings, I think he’s been easily one of our best this year (and great previous years) BUT if we finish down the bottom as it looks like will happen, and can get a top 10 pick for him, I’d seriously consider letting him go.

If we were contending again this year like last I would 100% be against it, but in the situation we’re in I’d be happy to go to the draft with 2 top 8ish picks and grab the best 2 genuine mids available.


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905568Post Waltzing St Kilda »

Might as well start drafting for 2025 onwards, though.

Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.

if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905575Post 1965 Saint »

Waltzing St Kilda wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 11:47pm Might as well start drafting for 2025 onwards, though.

Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.

if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.
Yes. Watched Port v Freo today and as much I hate to say it ( because I loathe them) the shitfish are not far off. They’ve achieved that situation by gaining off us and palming off Hill, the type of player that was holding them back. We really are numpties.


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905577Post Teflon »

We will get first rounder this year and next
Trade Billings for first round this year gives us 3 to play with over next 2
Trade - Billings pick/2022 pick for B King this year
Use current pick this year to draft best mid available
I think 2023 onwards is where it’s at
We still are a KPD short plus a Ryder replacement
Pray Clavarino becomes something or look to mid season drafts for a recycled steal
After that......mids mids mids


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905584Post Scollop »

1965 Saint wrote: Mon 31 May 2021 12:41am
Waltzing St Kilda wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 11:47pm Might as well start drafting for 2025 onwards, though.

Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.

if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.
Yes. Watched Port v Freo today and as much I hate to say it ( because I loathe them) the shitfish are not far off. They’ve achieved that situation by gaining off us and palming off Hill, the type of player that was holding them back. We really are numpties.
Should we dump Finnis, Gubby Allen and Lethlean before we start blaming our recruiting team?

Is it recruiters who go and negotiate with managers of players to get deals done like the Hill deal?

Remember that Lethlean also overruled our recruiters when it came to Hannas. It's a shame that our recruiters and medical team didn't have the nuts to stand up to Lethlean

Cho gave the Hannebery deal his blessing and he was salivating at the prospect of having a player like Hannebery on his list


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905589Post Yorkeys »

Gambled big on Hanners, double downed on Hill, used Afterpay, lost bigtime, and its time to pay.

Letters of demand ignored and phone not answered so guys with baseball bats at the door want keys to car and the trophy cabinet. What trophy cabinet you say?

Guys say, well borrow from the goodwill of your members. They seem infinitely forgiving after a few grumbles, unconditional love, eh. No need for any accountability.


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905594Post CURLY »

1965 Saint wrote: Mon 31 May 2021 12:41am
Waltzing St Kilda wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 11:47pm Might as well start drafting for 2025 onwards, though.

Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.

if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.
Yes. Watched Port v Freo today and as much I hate to say it ( because I loathe them) the shitfish are not far off. They’ve achieved that situation by gaining off us and palming off Hill, the type of player that was holding them back. We really are numpties.
Hill wasn't holding Freo back at all he was actually one of there best players. If he didn't want out he would still be there on the weekend.
Last edited by CURLY on Mon 31 May 2021 10:40am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905595Post Impatient Sainter »

cwrcyn wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 8:02pm Our draft picks this year will be woeful. Pick 8 and pick 52, something like that?? If we had three top ten picks like Essendon did last year, I'd be optimistic. The reality is that we need quality young talent but have insufficient draft picks to get them
One thing that may save our list management this year, is we will finally get access to some decent NGA players. Jack Peris, Mitchito Owens, Scott Beilby, Angus McLennan, Josiah Kyle & Marcus Windhager are all reasonable options.

I am against forcing Billings out. He is not a superstar but is a consistent performer who does a heap of unnoticed work and someone we cant afford to lose.
Last edited by Impatient Sainter on Mon 31 May 2021 10:34am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905596Post mad saint guy »

B.M wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 11:27pm Why get rid of decent players for picks?

We got rid of McEvoy for picks (18)

We got pick 12 for Goddard

We Got pick 21 for Stanley

We got pick 25 for Dal

Would have been better off keeping all of them!

Picks are NO guarantee

You don’t get better by trading out your good players

Ie/ trade out Billings or Ross for a second round pick
The second round picks we have are Dunstan and Long... would you do those trades

IMO
Draft well with the picks you’ve got
Trade smart to pick up young talent - targeted recruiting
Keep your good players
Absolutely agree. People suggesting we trade Billings are misguided. Why trade away a skillful outside player approaching his prime when we probably won't even replace him with a best 22 player? We'd likely draft another Raph Clarke/Brad Howard with whatever pick we get for Billings


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905598Post Ghost Like »

Agree MSG. We have a plethora of one sided players, the majority inside mids, let's try to get a deal on something we've got too much of.

I'd love Ben King but he'd be wrecked like his brother with the delivery from our mids. A quality mid with excellent pace, composure and disposal will only come from FA.

I'm as sceptical as the next supporter with our ability to get our draft / trade selections right with our current List Managers. I also look at Carlton who have had excellent access to some quality mids via the draft and continue to tread water. Melbourne also did for draft after draft until we gifted them a gem.

Bottom Line - I've no confidence in the current Football Department to get things right or to even acknowledge the wrong. That's where we agree Teflon, a full, independent review of the Football Department needs to be instigated by our President immediately, not at the end of the season.


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Post: # 1905602Post Impatient Sainter »

Saints currently have 1 pick only at the MSD.

Current club selections:

- Adelaide: One selection
- Brisbane: No selections
- Carlton: Two selections
- Collingwood: Two selections
- Essendon: One selection
- Fremantle: No selections
- Geelong: No selections
- Gold Coast: Two selections
- GWS: One selection
- Hawthorn: One selection
- Melbourne: Two selections
- North Melbourne: Two selections
- Port Adelaide: One selection
- Richmond: One selection
- St Kilda: One selection
- Sydney: One selection
- West Coast: No selections
- Western Bulldogs: No selections

Our salary cap management & club financial position must be dire, if we cant afford to place a couple of players on the LTI list to draft a couple of decent kids at the MSD. Surely adding new young talent to the list takes precedence over other expenditures.

Crikey they are frustrating, when will this football club get their s*** together and do the simple things right?


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905603Post saynta »

silverhalo wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 10:11pm
cwrcyn wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 8:02pm Our draft picks this year will be woeful. Pick 8 and pick 52, something like that?? If we had three top ten picks like Essendon did last year, I'd be optimistic. The reality is that we need quality young talent but have insufficient draft picks to get them
We need to trade out a couple of half decent experienced players for picks, simple as that
Yep, we would be simple to do that. :roll:


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Post: # 1905607Post The_Dud »

I don’t want B King if it’s going to cost us drafting 1 or 2 first round midfielders.

The modern game is all about the midfield, without quality in there (as we can see now) it doesn’t really matter how good your talls are.


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905612Post Saintmatt »

CURLY wrote: Mon 31 May 2021 9:54am
1965 Saint wrote: Mon 31 May 2021 12:41am
Waltzing St Kilda wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 11:47pm Might as well start drafting for 2025 onwards, though.

Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.

if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.
Yes. Watched Port v Freo today and as much I hate to say it ( because I loathe them) the shitfish are not far off. They’ve achieved that situation by gaining off us and palming off Hill, the type of player that was holding them back. We really are numpties.
Hill wasn't holding Freo back at all he was actually one of there best players. If he didn't want out he would still be there on the weekend.
Don't often agree with you Curly but WTF? Hill was holding Freo back? Absolute bulls***. He won their B & F in 2017. Fvck off re-writing history ppl


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Post: # 1905618Post SaintPav »

A lot of crap and lies gets written on this forum.


Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905627Post freely »

The_Dud wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 11:45pm I’m a huge fan of Billings, I think he’s been easily one of our best this year (and great previous years) BUT if we finish down the bottom as it looks like will happen, and can get a top 10 pick for him, I’d seriously consider letting him go.

If we were contending again this year like last I would 100% be against it, but in the situation we’re in I’d be happy to go to the draft with 2 top 8ish picks and grab the best 2 genuine mids available.
He's an RFA this year isn't he? We might not have much choice.


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905629Post The_Dud »

freely wrote: Mon 31 May 2021 1:35pm
The_Dud wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 11:45pm I’m a huge fan of Billings, I think he’s been easily one of our best this year (and great previous years) BUT if we finish down the bottom as it looks like will happen, and can get a top 10 pick for him, I’d seriously consider letting him go.

If we were contending again this year like last I would 100% be against it, but in the situation we’re in I’d be happy to go to the draft with 2 top 8ish picks and grab the best 2 genuine mids available.
He's an RFA this year isn't he? We might not have much choice.
Yeah that’s what I mean. If he wants to leave at the end of the year on a big contract I wouldn’t try match it, let him go and take the first round compo pick.


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Re: List profile = Reality check

Post: # 1905630Post SaintJohno »

The_Dud wrote: Mon 31 May 2021 1:45pm
freely wrote: Mon 31 May 2021 1:35pm
The_Dud wrote: Sun 30 May 2021 11:45pm I’m a huge fan of Billings, I think he’s been easily one of our best this year (and great previous years) BUT if we finish down the bottom as it looks like will happen, and can get a top 10 pick for him, I’d seriously consider letting him go.

If we were contending again this year like last I would 100% be against it, but in the situation we’re in I’d be happy to go to the draft with 2 top 8ish picks and grab the best 2 genuine mids available.
He's an RFA this year isn't he? We might not have much choice.
Yeah that’s what I mean. If he wants to leave at the end of the year on a big contract I wouldn’t try match it, let him go and take the first round compo pick.
Would he need to be offered $800K for us to get a first round compo pick? Not sure exactly how it works. Can't imagine someone offering him that, he's no Brad Hill. :?


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