Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

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damienc
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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934120Post damienc »

Impatient Sainter wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 11:01pm
saynta wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 10:26pm
Impatient Sainter wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 7:56pm
saintsRrising wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 6:57pm
Impatient Sainter wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 2:08pm Chris Doerre's (knightmare) phantom draft.

https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/ ... every-pick

The Hawks list manager has floated they would be interested in trading both picks 21 & 24 for a 1st round pick. I wonder if the Saints would entertain that given the supposed evenness of the draft after the earlier picks? The Hawks may even throw in a 3rd round future pick as a sweetener. The Saints would give up a first round pick, yet open up access to an array of players. Using the above phantom players like Sonsie, Knevitt, Butler, Rhett Bazzo (a key defender whom I believe projects better than Gibcus), MacDonald and many others. IMO its a free hit to pick up another quality player - definitely food for thought!!!
And if we swap for picks 21 and 24, and one of our NGA players is called at 22, we then lose 24 by matching. So end up worse off.
True that would be a calculated risk! Personally I don't rate Owens as a top 40 player and Windhager is a risk due to his back issues. If another club was stupid enough to bid on Owens earlier I would let them have him.
No f****** way
He is a free hit as an NGA player, but have you watched all his Dragons games?

He is an above average player - who doesnt hurt the opposition with his possessions. The one game against Vic Country when he got nearly 30 possessions, he would have gained about 100 metres total with the footy. He gives dinky little handballs and kicks and hasnt impressed me as much as Windhager.

He will be a good project player but I wouldnt be expecting him to become a dominant midfielder.
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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934122Post Impatient Sainter »

damienc wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 6:28am
Impatient Sainter wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 11:01pm
saynta wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 10:26pm
Impatient Sainter wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 7:56pm
saintsRrising wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 6:57pm
Impatient Sainter wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 2:08pm Chris Doerre's (knightmare) phantom draft.

https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/ ... every-pick

The Hawks list manager has floated they would be interested in trading both picks 21 & 24 for a 1st round pick. I wonder if the Saints would entertain that given the supposed evenness of the draft after the earlier picks? The Hawks may even throw in a 3rd round future pick as a sweetener. The Saints would give up a first round pick, yet open up access to an array of players. Using the above phantom players like Sonsie, Knevitt, Butler, Rhett Bazzo (a key defender whom I believe projects better than Gibcus), MacDonald and many others. IMO its a free hit to pick up another quality player - definitely food for thought!!!
And if we swap for picks 21 and 24, and one of our NGA players is called at 22, we then lose 24 by matching. So end up worse off.
True that would be a calculated risk! Personally I don't rate Owens as a top 40 player and Windhager is a risk due to his back issues. If another club was stupid enough to bid on Owens earlier I would let them have him.
No f****** way
He is a free hit as an NGA player, but have you watched all his Dragons games?

He is an above average player - who doesnt hurt the opposition with his possessions. The one game against Vic Country when he got nearly 30 possessions, he would have gained about 100 metres total with the footy. He gives dinky little handballs and kicks and hasnt impressed me as much as Windhager.

He will be a good project player but I wouldnt be expecting him to become a dominant midfielder.
Your words, particularly the last paragraph may come back to haunt you.
I hope you are right! Im no expert and just a punter giving an opinion. As a pure midfielder I would have 30 other kids in the draft ahead of him. He may well become the tall wingman that Ratten wants, hopefully he does?


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934127Post CURLY »

Owens and Windhager will both be best 18 mid rotation players. To get three highly rated kids with our draft hand will be a massive boost.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934128Post ace »

Who do you want at 11 ?
Horne-Francis, Darcy, Callaghan, Daicos, McAndrew & Rachelle gone in first 6.
$ of these gone in 7 to 10 but a choice of 3 left over.
Hobbs, Amiss, Ward, Gibcus, Erasmus, Wanganeen-Milera and Johnson


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934131Post CURLY »

ace wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 8:42am Who do you want at 11 ?
Horne-Francis, Darcy, Callaghan, Daicos, McAndrew & Rachelle gone in first 6.
$ of these gone in 7 to 10 but a choice of 3 left over.
Hobbs, Amiss, Ward, Gibcus, Erasmus, Wanganeen-Milera and Johnson
Hobbs for me. Best footballer in that group.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934135Post Impatient Sainter »

ace wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 8:42am Who do you want at 11 ?
Horne-Francis, Darcy, Callaghan, Daicos, McAndrew & Rachelle gone in first 6.
$ of these gone in 7 to 10 but a choice of 3 left over.
Hobbs, Amiss, Ward, Gibcus, Erasmus, Wanganeen-Milera and Johnson
In order Ward, Johnson, Erasmus, Wanganeen-Milera then Gibcus.

I feel Gibcus is not the key defender we need. We have plenty of intercept marking types eg Highmore, Battle, Wilkie, Allison, Coffield. If anything we need another big bodied lock down defender to replace or fill in for Howard.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934146Post avid »

Impatient Sainter wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 10:15am
ace wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 8:42am Who do you want at 11 ?
Horne-Francis, Darcy, Callaghan, Daicos, McAndrew & Rachelle gone in first 6.
$ of these gone in 7 to 10 but a choice of 3 left over.
Hobbs, Amiss, Ward, Gibcus, Erasmus, Wanganeen-Milera and Johnson
In order Ward, Johnson, Erasmus, Wanganeen-Milera then Gibcus.

I feel Gibcus is not the key defender we need. We have plenty of intercept marking types eg Highmore, Battle, Wilkie, Allison, Coffield. If anything we need another big bodied lock down defender to replace or fill in for Howard.
I think Sinn should be in that group too.
If Gibcus is the sort of CHB we need, then we need him the most
I'd be thrilled with Sinn or Wanganeen-M.
Very happy with Erasmus or Johnson,
A bit bored with Ward or Hobbs.
Hobbs, I admit, might be the highest quality slider of the lot. So, what would I actually know.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934148Post Sanctorum »

ace wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 11:40pm
bergsone wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 2:59pm
Impatient Sainter wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 2:08pm Chris Doerre's (knightmare) phantom draft.

https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/ ... every-pick

The Hawks list manager has floated they would be interested in trading both picks 21 & 24 for a 1st round pick. I wonder if the Saints would entertain that given the supposed evenness of the draft after the earlier picks? The Hawks may even throw in a 3rd round future pick as a sweetener. The Saints would give up a first round pick, yet open up access to an array of players. Using the above phantom players like Sonsie, Knevitt, Butler, Rhett Bazzo (a key defender whom I believe projects better than Gibcus), MacDonald and many others. IMO its a free hit to pick up another quality player - definitely food for thought!!!
Damned if you do and Damned if you dont.2 picks under 25 is tempting when you add 2 academdy players.Pick 11 turns out to be a gun or a dud or a gop
St Kilda needs a star or a failure, 2 mediocres add nothing to list.
St Kilda has heaps of mediocres.
Get the best available at 11 and pray that he is a star, not a failure.
I'm with you on this Ace, take best mid at 11, Wanganeen Milera is my preferred choice based on all the information available online. The Age has St Kilda selecting Josh Ward:

https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/josh-ward/


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934151Post saintsRrising »

Sanctorum wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 12:06pm
ace wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 11:40pm
bergsone wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 2:59pm
Impatient Sainter wrote: Tue 23 Nov 2021 2:08pm Chris Doerre's (knightmare) phantom draft.

https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/ ... every-pick

The Hawks list manager has floated they would be interested in trading both picks 21 & 24 for a 1st round pick. I wonder if the Saints would entertain that given the supposed evenness of the draft after the earlier picks? The Hawks may even throw in a 3rd round future pick as a sweetener. The Saints would give up a first round pick, yet open up access to an array of players. Using the above phantom players like Sonsie, Knevitt, Butler, Rhett Bazzo (a key defender whom I believe projects better than Gibcus), MacDonald and many others. IMO its a free hit to pick up another quality player - definitely food for thought!!!
Damned if you do and Damned if you dont.2 picks under 25 is tempting when you add 2 academdy players.Pick 11 turns out to be a gun or a dud or a gop
St Kilda needs a star or a failure, 2 mediocres add nothing to list.
St Kilda has heaps of mediocres.
Get the best available at 11 and pray that he is a star, not a failure.
I'm with you on this Ace, take best mid at 11, Wanganeen Milera is my preferred choice based on all the information available online. The Age has St Kilda selecting Josh Ward:

https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/josh-ward/
I would be very happy if we got Ward.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934152Post kosifantutti »

The Age today has us taking Sinn

Neither of the academy guys are in the top 20

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/pha ... 59bbj.html


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934155Post skeptic »

Yeah I don’t like Sinn at all…
Seems to be another player type that we have plenty of

Ward looks to be the best mid of the bunch and unlikely to slide to us

I reckon Johnson and NWM look better than they are
Erasmus I have no impression of

And my fav in Sonsie seems out of our range… closer to 20 then 11
Lot of ppl like Hobbs, I’m not sure

Gibcus makes sense and I wouldn’t be unhappy with him


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934217Post Impatient Sainter »

Well done Saints NWM, Owens & Windhager! Hopefully there is another late slider also?


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934221Post ace »

Owens & Windhager both survive the top 20.

That means St kilda can take them both by matching other clubs bids for them.
It may take more points than the club has but it still means the club can get them by going into deficit on the 2022 2nd round pick.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934237Post vacuous space »

ace wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 8:59pm Owens & Windhager both survive the top 20.

That means St kilda can take them both by matching other clubs bids for them.
It may take more points than the club has but it still means the club can get them by going into deficit on the 2022 2nd round pick.
Do you know, of the top of your head, how far they have to fall for us to not have to go into deficit?


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934252Post saintsRrising »

ace wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 8:59pm Owens & Windhager both survive the top 20.

That means St kilda can take them both by matching other clubs bids for them.
It may take more points than the club has but it still means the club can get them by going into deficit on the 2022 2nd round pick.

With so many bolters in the Top 20 there is a lot of good talent left still to attract the other clubs before they call out one of our NGA's.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934257Post Banger9798 »

Also with the Father sons, all of our late picks have moved up about spots and gained point value.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934267Post Saints58 »

Where are our picks now how far have they moved.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934269Post saynta »

Saints58 wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 10:08pm Where are our picks now how far have they moved.
St Kilda will take picks 55, 61, 65, 66 and 81 into tomorrow night’s continuation of the 2021 NAB AFL Draft.'


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934270Post Saints58 »

Didn't our picks move forward if so how many spots and how does it work anyone know. thanks


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934274Post CQ SAINT »

Saints58 wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 10:15pm Didn't our picks move forward if so how many spots and how does it work anyone know. thanks
I think it is 6 less than Saynta quoted.

So 49, etc.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934293Post ace »

saynta wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 10:10pm
Saints58 wrote: Wed 24 Nov 2021 10:08pm Where are our picks now how far have they moved.
St Kilda will take picks 55, 61, 65, 66 and 81 into tomorrow night’s continuation of the 2021 NAB AFL Draft.'
That's not how it works.
Yes St Kilda's picks remain in order but as other picks around them move.

There seemed to be late leak of picks down to 9 with Cal Twomey and others accurately predicting until they got Fremantle pick10 wrong but even got st kilda at 11 correct.
Based on those predictions I calculated St Kilda would now have picks 48, 54, 58, 60 and one more pick outside the points.
The AFL knows the new order but I can't find anything on their website.
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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934295Post ace »

Richmond delisted and intend retaking Bigoa Nyuon in the rookie draft, but he is exposed in the main draft.
I would love to see St Kilda steal him with the club's last pick in the main draft thus thwarting Richmond and reclaiming him after Richmond tried to make St Kilda go into deficit to match their bid in 2019.
It would cost St Kilda a place on the senior list but it would make that 2019 Richmond pick worthless.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934296Post St Fidelius »

Great, we pick up NWM with our first pick to play with our other non tackling wingman Hill. Two wingman who have no idea of how to tackle. Off to a good start.


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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934297Post CQ SAINT »

St Fidelius wrote: Thu 25 Nov 2021 1:50am Great, we pick up NWM with our first pick to play with our other non tackling wingman Hill. Two wingman who have no idea of how to tackle. Off to a good start.
In his debut year in the SANFL ressies and seniors he ranked quite well for tackles for a skinny 18 year old with no idea.

His 2.5 tackle average in seniors (4 games)
In the ressies his average is 4.0.
He coach described him as keen to tackle and very good at it.
Out of about 573 AFL players this year, a 2.5 average ranks you at 215 next to Paddy Ryder, Ben Long and Blake Acres.
A 4.0 average ranks you at 71.

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Re: Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

Post: # 1934331Post Impatient Sainter »

St Fidelius wrote: Thu 25 Nov 2021 1:50am Great, we pick up NWM with our first pick to play with our other non tackling wingman Hill. Two wingman who have no idea of how to tackle. Off to a good start.
Wow thats a statement. The kid is 18yo 70 kgs and been playing SANFL & Seniors all year, I doubt he would have acheived that if he wasnt prepared to put his body on the line. I have been talking down Owens lack of impact by hand & foot, but his tackling and attack on the ball is exceptional. Plus Windhager has the potential to be a dynamic balanced mid good as any.
Last edited by Impatient Sainter on Thu 25 Nov 2021 12:42pm, edited 1 time in total.


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