5 Elite Players Short

[BackFromUSA]

Bob Murphy was elite in 2016? In how many games? Or did he come top 10% of season ending injury players to earn that elite status?

[BackFromUSA]

And Stringer vs Membrey head to head. On what measure was Stringer better in 2016? Ego? Preening? Missed opportunities? Fumbles? Burning teammates?

[Linton Lodger]

I don't know who Champion Data rates as elite, for the record I'll do some ratings.

Champion data use data not their opinion.
They are the official data supplier to the AFL and clubs.

This is my point, it is data, last season's data. Also, data that doesn't cover every aspect of the players effectiveness. An example is Maverick Weller, given his influence on the team, his leadership, his work rate and his consistency. He's elite, regardless of where Champion Data puts him.

Champion Data doesn't measure a player's potential, or how they may develop over a preseason or with the experience of games.

Those Champion Data stats give you no idea how a team may perform next year.

[borderbarry]

I have to disagree with Con on his Doggies elite. Wzllace, Nah. I have Libratore a long way ahead of Wallis. Bont yeh. Bob Murphy, like to see how he comes back. May be struggling after a year out at his age. Matthew Boyd, I think his best footy is well behind him. Jake Stringer, not on his finals games. Luke Dahlhaus, close, and so is first year player Caleb Daniel. He is a little beauty.

[stevie]

can someone put up the list of players plse? I love a good laugh!

Elite Bulldogs players: Mitch Wallis, Marcus Bontempelli, Bob Murphy, Matthew Boyd, Jake Stringer, Luke Dahlhaus.

lol can't wait to see the Port ones!

[desertsaint]

can someone put up the list of players plse? I love a good laugh!

Elite Bulldogs players: Mitch Wallis, Marcus Bontempelli, Bob Murphy, Matthew Boyd, Jake Stringer, Luke Dahlhaus.

How does Bob Murphy get elite for sitting on the sidelines all year?

[Con Gorozidis]

And Stringer vs Membrey head to head. On what measure was Stringer better in 2016? Ego? Preening? Missed opportunities? Fumbles? Burning teammates?

Agree. I think Membrey is ahead. Not by that much though. Here you go:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... 1=S&fid2=S

[Con Gorozidis]

can someone put up the list of players plse? I love a good laugh!

Elite Bulldogs players: Mitch Wallis, Marcus Bontempelli, Bob Murphy, Matthew Boyd, Jake Stringer, Luke Dahlhaus.

How does Bob Murphy get elite for sitting on the sidelines all year?

No idea.

[kosifantutti]

Murphy an elite good bloke
Stringer an elite package

Easton Wood is better than most of that six.

[Con Gorozidis]

My prediction for next year:

GWS
Bulldogs
Crows
Saints
Swans
Demons
Cats
Bombers
Eagles
Hawks

The rest

[Con Gorozidis]

Murphy an elite good bloke
Stringer an elite package

Easton Wood is better than most of that six.

Agree. Easton Wood is absolutely outstanding.
It seems the champion data is time lagged a bit maybe?

According to the latest 'Schick Ratings' Joey and Easton Wood would be top 10% in their positions. Both are clearly ahead of Bob Murphy.

http://www.afl.com.au/afl/stats/player- ... m_defender

[Spinner]

Bob Murphy was elite in 2016? In how many games? Or did he come top 10% of season ending injury players to earn that elite status?

Did Fyfe lose his rating? Surely the method needs to account for quality players that get injured?

And Stringer was AA last year, this time next year Membrey will be well and truly ahead but there needs to be a reasonable window, not just solely 2/3rds of a season, otherwise ratings would be jumping all over the place.

[Zed]

I think this is a fair measure.

Having 11 above average is a very good sign. That makes us 3rd in the comp for above average players.

Being top 10% in your position is a very hard thing to do which I think is a good measure because commentators throw the word word 'elite' around way too easily for mine.

The good news is we have some potential elites. Carlisle can be elite. Hickey cant be far off it now. Acres, Steele and Ross are potential elite midfielders. Membrey cant be far off for his position either.

I actually think we have more players on the cusp of moving up into Above Average than most other teams - which I'm quietly excited about. In all my years of following St Kilda, our good years have almost always been as a result of having some absolute elite players carrying the rest of the team. Now it's a much more even spread - and if in fact we go from say 11 above average players to say 15, we will be well on our way to finishing top 4. The 'Elite' piece that we must find is the polished kicking skills and decision makers. 10 above average players with elite kicking and decision making skills will make us a serious contender.

[To the top]

They got us the first time this year because of our ball usage gifting possessions to their defensive 8 (or was it 10?) - and then us having little guys chasing from mark to mark as they switched then switched then switched yet again.

The second time we got them because we used the ball better, had a bigger forward line and had big defensive forward bodies putting them on their backsides - and out of the game.

The season before we got them with a half of football - then lost narrowly due to very inaccurate goal kicking.

So who cares what some analysis of disposal numbers data says?

The reason that, at this stage, I have confidence that in 2017 we will not be too far off the mark is that we have improved our List for 2017 more than they have - so my expectation is that we have the 2016 Premiers covered.

Then there is GWS - who really should have beaten WB in the Preliminary Final with anywhere near a fair shake from the umpiring.

[Spinner]

I think this is a fair measure.

Having 11 above average is a very good sign. That makes us 3rd in the comp for above average players.

Being top 10% in your position is a very hard thing to do which I think is a good measure because commentators throw the word word 'elite' around way too easily for mine.

The good news is we have some potential elites. Carlisle can be elite. Hickey cant be far off it now. Acres, Steele and Ross are potential elite midfielders. Membrey cant be far off for his position either.

I actually think we have more players on the cusp of moving up into Above Average than most other teams - which I'm quietly excited about. In all my years of following St Kilda, our good years have almost always been as a result of having some absolute elite players carrying the rest of the team. Now it's a much more even spread - and if in fact we go from say 11 above average players to say 15, we will be well on our way to finishing top 4. The 'Elite' piece that we must find is the polished kicking skills and decision makers. 10 above average players with elite kicking and decision making skills will make us a serious contender.

I agree Zed. I'm confident our more pushing into above average, less confident about the push into elite.

But... With a more consistent and quality core, it will be more easy for some above average to statistically push into the elite category leveraging off a better performing team.

Some of the success for players individually is always attributed to some of the team success.

[Scollop]

So the elite-heavy teams (like GWS), once their elite youngsters mature and sign hefty new contracts, will end up with a soft underbelly of ordinary footballers that a team brim-full of good footballers (with only 1 or 2 elite) could exploit.

Agreed. Although I wouldn't be using GWS as an example. I think all teams can learn from the Geelong experience of 2004-2011. You try and keep your core of above average and elites if you want to win premierships. That means players have to make sacrifices and forego the extra bucks that are available in the open market. The club also has to sell that message and not just try and recruit free agents on hefty contracts

Sydney is a case in point with Tippett and Franklin and the imbalances that caused. TPP meant losing a guy like Mumford as well as Malceski and now Tom Mitchell

[stkfc1]

can someone put up the list of players plse? I love a good laugh!

Elite Bulldogs players: Mitch Wallis, Marcus Bontempelli, Bob Murphy, Matthew Boyd, Jake Stringer, Luke Dahlhaus.

I'd only have Bont in as elite amongst those. Wallis, Boyd and Stringer are B+ players at best. Murph and Dal are A graders. The problem with Stats like Champion Data is they don't see the whole picture. You may have elite skills dosnt mean your an elite player.

[dragit]

can someone put up the list of players plse? I love a good laugh!

Elite Bulldogs players: Mitch Wallis, Marcus Bontempelli, Bob Murphy, Matthew Boyd, Jake Stringer, Luke Dahlhaus.

This really just shows how flawed this metric is.

Membrey > Stringer in 2016, comfortably.

kicked 50% more goals per match
took twice as many marks
three times as many contested marks
three times as many marks inside 50

Stringer beats Membrey by a whisker in disposals (1 PM),

Seb Ross absolutely shreds Mitch Wallis for stats in just about every meaningful midfield stat

What is Matthew Boyd elite in? Montagna is equal for most stats.

[Con Gorozidis]

It is just one measure. It isnt the Bible. It isnt a grand conspiracy against the Saints.

Here is the Dogs B & F for 2016

1. Marcus Bontempelli (319)

2. Dale Morris (248)

3. Lachie Hunter (246)

4. Tom Liberatore (218)

5. Liam Picken (214)

6. Luke Dahlhaus (201)

7. Jack Macrae (185)

7. Caleb Daniel (185)

9. Matthew Boyd (184)

10. Jason Johannisen (165)

Dogs fans would probably argue Picken, Hunter and Libba are 'elite' and who would argue against them on that. You could throw in Wood and JJ as well.

But agree - I reckon Membrey is ahead of Stringer - even on stats.

[dragit]

I would argue that Picken isn't elite… great presence though.

But Stringer this year was playing VFL for a reason - he was shite, not even remotely elite.

[Con Gorozidis]

The way i see it we need at least 25 good players to win a flag.

The Dogs had Murphy, Wallis, Adams, Jong, Redpath, Crameri and Suckling watching on tv or in the stands. All capable players.

[Spinner]

can someone put up the list of players plse? I love a good laugh!

Elite Bulldogs players: Mitch Wallis, Marcus Bontempelli, Bob Murphy, Matthew Boyd, Jake Stringer, Luke Dahlhaus.

I'd only have Bont in as elite amongst those. Wallis, Boyd and Stringer are B+ players at best. Murph and Dal are A graders. The problem with Stats like Champion Data is they don't see the whole picture. You may have elite skills dosnt mean your an elite player.

It's better than your system of just pulling it out from no where haha

You don't have a definition for 'elite', Champion data do
You don't compare players against other teams, Champion data do
You don't compare players against other teams across positions, Champion data do

The data and analysis won't show the whole picture but it's miles better than any other method, including just someone's opinion based on watching a handful of games.

[magnifisaint]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Teflon]

Numbers aside this fits with the club strategy hence next year has to be gun FA I'd have thought
I too think our side lacks elite, match winning talent and ageing players aside (who only Roo gets near elite let's be honest), we probably have Steven that's it
We got work to do here for sure
Ofcourse a few juniors take next step and bang! So we can cover that
I think
Billings, Acres and Gresham have elite capabilities Carlisle too
So bring in 2 gun mids (Shiel/Kelly), I think we all of a sudden are there...
Let's hope Paddy goes bang and u have one up forward!!
Right now, we need more "bang" for the buck

[samuraisaint]

With the first round pick we will get from the Hawkers we should be able to draft a jet - if the Hawks have a poor year and finish very low we may even get a top 5 or 6 pick in next years draft. If we hold our position from last season we'll get a top 10 draft pick as well, so that is two possible elites right there. Hit free agency and pick up a third.
Don't think we'll see finals in 2017 due to the more difficulty draw, but looking forward to seeing how our new backline and souped-up midfield stacks up next year.