Do you expect selection experiments?…….

[shanegrambeau]

…..now that the season is over… (and Seb “can’t wait to get back in the red, white and black”!)

Seriously, now that the season is over for us campaign wise, do you think we’ll start to really try new structures and selections? Or do you think we will try to ‘re-capture the magic’ that we once had? Is that even possible in your opinion, or have times changed?

What kind of changes do you envisage?

[cwrcyn]

Not a lot to work with, unfortunately. Highmore's a chance to stay in the team now, which means that Clavarino may not get another shot. Darragh Joyce wasn't too bad in the games he played. I'd be inclined to give a small defender role. He's quick. Get him to run and create. They've never given him that role. It might be worth trying.

Our midfield is undermanned, but I doubt Bytel will be gifted games for development. It all depends on Dunstan and where the coach sees his future at the club. Clearly he wouldn't be playing if Jones and Gresham were available. I'm guessing the coach isn't a big fan, seeing it took a long time to promote Dunstan even though we were undermanned, but if winning is the priority, then Dunstan's 22 possessions will be better than Bytel's 10 possessions. Bytel struggles badly to get from contest to contest and is actually slower than Dunstan. Crouch, Dunstan, and Bytel unfortunately don't run both ways, and that's why our defense is under siege so often. I expect Byrnes will get more time at the centre bounces for the rest of the year. He has shown that he has the work ethic and foot skills and decision making to be worthy of more midfield time. He's one of the few bright lights in a dim year.

Will Long get another extended shot at it now? He needs to show that he can cut it otherwise the cut will be him. It's hard to see where that one will fall. I see Connolly as a chance to play once he's fit. His elite foot skills are something we desperately need. He's lightly built and untried, but this is the perfect scenario to test him at AFL level. Mckenzie was a bit of amixed bag when he played. Some of the same characteristic from previous year, but there were some things he did better. Could he be thrown the role of defensive small forward? Perhaps not.

Will Ratten have the guts to drop Butler? His body language has been, shall I say, quite relaxed during games. For such a quick player, he's looked quite sluggish of late. The issue then is who do you replace him with? Lonie is looking on the nose and Kent has had a pretty bad concussion he's yet to fully recover from.

Allison is no chance. He simply doesn't have the body that can handle AFL pressure. He'll need another 10kg before he'd be considered. We'd be destroying him otherwise.

[cwrcyn]

The other thing that the club needs to decide. If finals are out of the question (Duh) then guys who need surgery should be done before season's end. The biggest priority with the current playing group is to get them absolutely primed for next season. The question of list management has been discussed at length on here, but gee, we are really crying out for young, talented, and energetic youngsters.

[shanegrambeau]

THanks cwrcyn,

Yes, re list..

Can we do anything about the under performance of Billings, Coffield, Butler, Battle?

My guess.

Billings
will be rested completely..We might never see him again, or at least not this season. He might be injured and laboring.

Coffield
Sandringham for the rest of the year, get mojo back

Battle
Continue to be rotated as utility and in and out of the team on the border of selection. Clearly not good enough to invest in as KPP

Butler
I think he'll come good. Not really good, but decent.

Lonie
Gonesky
I am a big fanboy - was, but I just can't watch him now...those haphazrd shots...he presents but what dribbler lazy kicks at goal..Can't tolerate it. Still better than Kent though...please no Kent

Joyce and Highmore
I expect to see more

Clav
Sandy and backup

Team Structures
No idea at all.Clueless. Where do we start?

Sincs
Is going along well. Could he be played more midfield.

Crouch/Ross/Dunstan
Our middling, mids with middle of the road performance just have to keep on chugging.

I posted that there will be a miracle turn around and that we'll win every game (almost) the second half.

Of course I still believe it, but if I am wrong, we might eek out 3 or 4 wins somehow.

[ROLS-LEE]

Wouldn't mind seeing Howard forward depending on who we are playing against.

Leave battle in 1 position. He is not great in any so let's find one and leave him there.

[shanegrambeau]

Wouldn't mind seeing Howard forward depending on who we are playing against.

Leave battle in 1 position. He is not great in any so let's find one and leave him there.

Are you aware that one of the reasons Howard is with us is because he refused to play forward at Port Adelaide? Port Adelaide didn't appreciate his demands and he found the compassionate club St Kilda, ready and willing to accommodate his demands.

I remember him being shifted forward last year during one of our diabolical games (swiftly forgotten in finals delirium) and he looked visibly upset.

[WellardSaint]

There is no cattle left to experiment with!

Nobody of any note, in the Zebs.

It's gonna be same same

[shanegrambeau]

There is no cattle left to experiment with!

Nobody of any note, in the Zebs.

It's gonna be same same

Yes, but with finals out of the question, perhaps focus will be on experimenting with lesser players and new structures, position changes, plans etc.

Or

Do you think it will be, let’s try to win each game on its merits, pulling out all the stoppers based on what has already worked.

[Yorkeys]

Yes.
Noticed a scribe on The Roar suggesting Hill to half back has messed up Coffield.
Wood to be perserved with; Butler not to be perserved with.
Just don't understand why Joyce is unloved. Similarly don't understand why Webster seems an automatic selection.
But all that is tinkering.
Have to find some workable, reliable, wing and half back combinations though. And how to connect lines.

[Vortex]

Experiment suggests there are options.

[shanegrambeau]

Yes.
Noticed a scribe on The Roar suggesting Hill to half back has messed up Coffield.
Wood to be perserved with; Butler not to be perserved with.
Just don't understand why Joyce is unloved. Similarly don't understand why Webster seems an automatic selection.
But all that is tinkering.
Have to find some workable, reliable, wing and half back combinations though. And how to connect lines.

Agree, disagree, agree

Agree Coffield with Roar
I even wrote this in the Coffield thread….what a genius!

But fair points..

I think Joyce should be more, Webster less too…maybe Webster runs more..

I disagree about Butler..Butler and Hill are not gonna get much love..I know…but I’ve kind of given up on Lonie although I think he is a talent. And actually a skilled operator…and a smart one.

And Vortex, yes, we have choices…maybe not so much personnel wise, but we have plenty of options in so far as moving forward.

I want us to win games…I don’t like ‘development’ and I hate ‘getting games into youngens who turn out to be alsorans’, but I’m up to try stuff now.

So gutted about the weekend…so shocked about the whole affair. As we all are, in only a depth defying Saints fan can relate to.

[Banger9798]

Keep playing Coffield , Bytel ,Byrnes and Clavarino or Highmore for the rest of the year (unless injured)

No finals clearly, so get games into them.

Pick a f****** spot for Battle and leave him there.

No more cosy half back for Hill, get on the wing and do what you're paid to do.

Rest Billings if carrying an injury...what possible point could there be in playing him??

[Banger9798]

Wilkie Howard Webster

Coffield Highmore/ Clav Sinclair

Hill Ross Byrnes

Butler Battle Higgins

Membrey King Wood

Ryder, Steele, Crouch

Dunstan, 2nd Ruck (not Hunter) , Long, Joyce

[shanegrambeau]

Wilkie Howard Webster

Coffield Highmore/ Clav Sinclair

Hill Ross Byrnes

Butler Battle Higgins

Membrey King Wood

Ryder, Steele, Crouch

Dunstan, 2nd Ruck (not Hunter) , Long, Joyce

I think that is a tidy team.
One which will finish 12th in the best of seasons.

Look at the half back line! (Highmore is a project, Calv not good enough, Coffield is not a unit that can reliably bolt in. Sinclair is a makeshift half back that has shone. So core 1.5/3

The Centre line?
Hill? yes. Ross, he should take care of his kids (family first) and he is a trundler these days, Crouch? Just..he has just survived at 5/10, given what we need...but pass , keep going,
Score 2/3

HF line
Yes for Butler, Higgins, no for Battle.no way. He is no where near being a KPP.
Butler...I have no idea....
1.5/3

FF line
Yes, yes,yes

[footynut]

So the trick now is to see who's up to it / give some a taste / get everyones body resdy for the start of the preseason / win some game / and try and work out a successful game plan that maximise our strengths.

Id run with a team like for next week:

Wilkie Howard Highmore

Connolly Battle Sinclair

Hill Bytel Byrnes

Webster King Higgins

Long Wood Heath / Membrey (if available)

Ryder, Steele, Crouch

Coffield Clavarino Dunstan Heath / ????
Joyce

[B.M]

I’d pick the best team every week, and try and win every game.

Gifting games is the hallmark of a club with a losing culture.

To me, if you’re not picking your best 22, you’re basically tanking.

I’ll tell you who has been underwhelming this season - Bytel.
He is struggling to get a kick.

[shanegrambeau]

I’d pick the best team every week, and try and win every game.

Gifting games is the hallmark of a club with a losing culture.

To me, if you’re not picking your best 22, you’re basically tanking.

I’ll tell you who has been underwhelming this season - Bytel.
He is struggling to get a kick.

Yes, Bytel not alone.

Thing is, would the current best 22 beat a hypothetical 22 that was made up of eight more rounds of experimental selections and potentially devastating losses?

Remember the beginning of GTs run. St Kilda got smashed sometimes by three figures and the press were pummeling St Kilda and GT for our arrogance in ousting big Malcolm. But those experiments yielded results.

[Scollop]

Yes.
Noticed a scribe on The Roar suggesting Hill to half back has messed up Coffield.
Wood to be perserved with; Butler not to be perserved with.
Just don't understand why Joyce is unloved. Similarly don't understand why Webster seems an automatic selection.
But all that is tinkering.
Have to find some workable, reliable, wing and half back combinations though. And how to connect lines.

Maybe because he regularly beats his opponents. That is a defenders main role. His disposal efficiency has also been very good and he is probably high on the 1 percenters like spoils and tackles.

He doesn’t play on the talls, and he doesn’t take intercept marks so he’s not as conspicuous as Wilkie or Howard. And he doesn’t take the kick outs to rack up cheap possessions on the stat sheet

[Wayne42]

You would think that after a couple of weeks of no games for the Victorian VFL teams they would all be playing this week.

That's not the case, Sandy has a Bye this week, after a couple of Covid Byes, farken ludicrous.

How many changes can Ratts make if a portion of his list hasn't played a game for some weeks.

[B.M]

We’d have about 2 players available at VFL level

Lucky for Sandy play was suspended

[bigcarl]

There is no cattle left to experiment with!

Nobody of any note, in the Zebs.

It's gonna be same same

Yep, hard to see what else can be tried.

I wonder how far away Marshall is.

[SaintDippa]

In the last 10 games maybe not experiment in the following: Richmond, Port, Brisbane (A), Eagles (A), Cats (A). Might get ugly.

[Ghost Like]

Richmond & Port got ugly without experimenting.

[Scollop]

Yes.
Noticed a scribe on The Roar suggesting Hill to half back has messed up Coffield.
Wood to be perserved with; Butler not to be perserved with.
Just don't understand why Joyce is unloved. Similarly don't understand why Webster seems an automatic selection.
But all that is tinkering.
Have to find some workable, reliable, wing and half back combinations though. And how to connect lines.

Maybe because he regularly beats his opponents. That is a defenders main role. His disposal efficiency has also been very good and he is probably high on the 1 percenters like spoils and tackles.

He doesn’t play on the talls, and he doesn’t take intercept marks so he’s not as conspicuous as Wilkie or Howard. And he doesn’t take the kick outs to rack up cheap possessions on the stat sheet

BUMP

Well done to Webster getting back into some good form


….smelling my own farts again

[SaintPav]

Yes.
Noticed a scribe on The Roar suggesting Hill to half back has messed up Coffield.
Wood to be perserved with; Butler not to be perserved with.
Just don't understand why Joyce is unloved. Similarly don't understand why Webster seems an automatic selection.
But all that is tinkering.
Have to find some workable, reliable, wing and half back combinations though. And how to connect lines.

Maybe because he regularly beats his opponents. That is a defenders main role. His disposal efficiency has also been very good and he is probably high on the 1 percenters like spoils and tackles.

He doesn’t play on the talls, and he doesn’t take intercept marks so he’s not as conspicuous as Wilkie or Howard. And he doesn’t take the kick outs to rack up cheap possessions on the stat sheet

BUMP

Well done to Webster getting back into some good form


….smelling my own farts again

I forgot how good this guy is.

Begs the question, where do we play Paton next season?