Reality Check and where we are at!!

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Laurie
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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by Laurie »

Great post and agree we desperately need to move on a number of players.
Billings much that he has been good in SOME games i believe has reached his limit at our club and needs to be moved on .
Tough decisions need to be made and unfortunately this is one of them.


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by samoht »

Scollop wrote: Sun 06 Jun 2021 4:21pm He’s the only one that didn’t get affected by the magical qualities of the man known as Cho!
Byrnes would develop anywhere - even under the chief health officer. :wink:
He just needs games/experience.


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by Teflon »

Big question is IF we land a pick 7 this year, knowing we need to bring in multiple players do you run the risk and try split that for 2 picks mid 20 + early 30s OR do you say no best available mid at pick 7 knowing your odds are improved at getting a better quality player the higher up you selection?

I think splitting can u leave u in no mans land.....Port have been doing this for a while but they can.....they have a stable list with A graders in place......we don’t...


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by suss »

Teflon wrote: Sun 06 Jun 2021 5:56pm Big question is IF we land a pick 7 this year, knowing we need to bring in multiple players do you run the risk and try split that for 2 picks mid 20 + early 30s OR do you say no best available mid at pick 7 knowing your odds are improved at getting a better quality player the higher up you selection?

I think splitting can u leave u in no mans land.....Port have been doing this for a while but they can.....they have a stable list with A graders in place......we don’t...
What we should do is take pick 7 and pick the best midfielder we can get our hands on. It’s what we should’ve done every year for past 10 years but have failed to do so.

What we will do is split pick 7 into two picks in the 20s. With one pick we’ll take an undersized key forward 22-year-old smokey who’s playing in the WAFL. With the other pick we’ll take a half back flanker who comes from a good family but has one leg.

Guaranteed.


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by Teflon »

suss wrote: Sun 06 Jun 2021 8:44pm
Teflon wrote: Sun 06 Jun 2021 5:56pm Big question is IF we land a pick 7 this year, knowing we need to bring in multiple players do you run the risk and try split that for 2 picks mid 20 + early 30s OR do you say no best available mid at pick 7 knowing your odds are improved at getting a better quality player the higher up you selection?

I think splitting can u leave u in no mans land.....Port have been doing this for a while but they can.....they have a stable list with A graders in place......we don’t...
What we should do is take pick 7 and pick the best midfielder we can get our hands on. It’s what we should’ve done every year for past 10 years but have failed to do so.

What we will do is split pick 7 into two picks in the 20s. With one pick we’ll take an undersized key forward 22-year-old smokey who’s playing in the WAFL. With the other pick we’ll take a half back flanker who comes from a good family but has one leg.

Guaranteed.
Sadly that’s a possibility..


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by B.M »

Suss

Spot on


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by Teflon »

Whispers tonight Tom Mitchell on the market for the right deal ....classic example of a club a smart club making the move to get compensation while he still has value..
Billings anyone?


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by Ghost Like »

It will be interesting to see what they get for Mitchell & then equate that back to JB, who remember, is a RFA. Why does Hawthorn's list management have any relevance to ours?

I still find it quite funny that those who do not rate JB enough to keep him, think we will get decent compensation for him. Not only that, they then trust our drafting / trading record to get the value they seek.

Perhaps we should go after Mitchell, god knows we have at least 17 more spots for slow, non goal kicking, inside mids who love racking up damageless possessions.

I think Hawthorn over valued Mitchell and have been caught out from years of topping up after moving on first round picks. That's the lesson, do all you can to hold on to first and second round draft picks unless someone is stupidly desperate for them & whatever deals. Hello Hawthorn.


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by shanegrambeau »

Hawthorn beat Sydney by plenty, in Sydney = reality?


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by Scollop »

shanegrambeau wrote: Sat 12 Jun 2021 2:06am Hawthorn beat Sydney by plenty, in Sydney = reality?
Sydney were due for a loss. Young team and young players have inconsistent games. Did they only have a 6 day break?

Hawks had lost 5 in a row and Clarko is a proud man. He's a 4 time premiership winning coach.

...he also told his players to make sure they brought their mouth guards to training last Monday

....apparently Clarko paired them off and they did a bit of cross training in the old fashioned style with some toe to toe boxing


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by samuraisaint »

shanegrambeau wrote: Sat 12 Jun 2021 2:06am Hawthorn beat Sydney by plenty, in Sydney = reality?
Reality check for us - the Swans couldn't beat Fremantle either. Widely tipped to finsih bottom four and we couldn't even beat them. Poor. And very predictable from St Kilda who never fail to play to the script.


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by Teflon »

Ghost Like wrote: Tue 08 Jun 2021 7:39am It will be interesting to see what they get for Mitchell & then equate that back to JB, who remember, is a RFA. Why does Hawthorn's list management have any relevance to ours?

I still find it quite funny that those who do not rate JB enough to keep him, think we will get decent compensation for him. Not only that, they then trust our drafting / trading record to get the value they seek.

Perhaps we should go after Mitchell, god knows we have at least 17 more spots for slow, non goal kicking, inside mids who love racking up damageless possessions.

I think Hawthorn over valued Mitchell and have been caught out from years of topping up after moving on first round picks. That's the lesson, do all you can to hold on to first and second round draft picks unless someone is stupidly desperate for them & whatever deals. Hello Hawthorn.
Errrr....truly bizarre post that could not miss key point further if it tried (even though we’ve been over this already....*sigh*....here goes..)

1. Hawks overrate their list??? - you can probably cut some slack here after is 3 or 4 Flags this past decade...I actually forget....but a good Hawks mate let’s me know he’s seen at least 1 every decade since 1970....anyhoo...overrate away Clarko..

2. What has Hawks recruiting got to do with us?? So strange....infact I rate ANY successful clubs recruiting efforts past 10 years as relevant to ours....Ports from 2026-2018 is especially fascinating....point is I would hope our clubs not sitting back saying “gee we are good” when recruiting results might say otherwise?? Learn ffs

3. Those not rating Billings enough to keep him....lol ....explained already but again IF North Melbourne offer JB $750k plus he’s obviously rated more by them than us - Uve read with interest that Saints and Billings are already quite a fair way apart on contract talks with suggestions from club ITK’s (yes yes take it with a grain but these have some track record) being that IF he gets that bigger contract offer the club will encourage him to take it. They KNOW they need to rejuvenate the lost from draft and want 2 first round picks to do it.....ofcourse if JB only gets offered 5/600k on market you probably keep him. This is not a hard concept...


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by Ghost Like »

Teflon, as JB's contract talks are worlds apart so are our beliefs on JB's value against another speculative draft pick.

All 3 points you made to pick apart my post made no sense except to say you've got a Hawthorn mate, congrats. You argue for Hawthorn's recruiting by quoting Port Adelaide. Then you talk about a contract negotiations that we all know is about what the Club is willing to match.

What the Club wants and what it ultimately gets is determined by a magical, secret formula determined by the AFL - I have no confidence that will work in our favour.

Of course I don't wish to pay overs because we've seen how that works out. If North wish to make another Polec mistake, good luck to them but I am quite confident that JB will play more quality football for them than Polec has.


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by Teflon »

Ghost Like wrote: Sat 12 Jun 2021 3:06pm Teflon, as JB's contract talks are worlds apart so are our beliefs on JB's value against another speculative draft pick.

All 3 points you made to pick apart my post made no sense except to say you've got a Hawthorn mate, congrats. You argue for Hawthorn's recruiting by quoting Port Adelaide. Then you talk about a contract negotiations that we all know is about what the Club is willing to match.

What the Club wants and what it ultimately gets is determined by a magical, secret formula determined by the AFL - I have no confidence that will work in our favour.

Of course I don't wish to pay overs because we've seen how that works out. If North wish to make another Polec mistake, good luck to them but I am quite confident that JB will play more quality football for them than Polec has.
And you once against just stated you don’t trust our recruiting or AFL
I understand you don’t get the points above so I’ll resist trying again to enlighten you., the old adage “battle of wits with an unarmed man” comes to mind....
I do note Mitchell had 31 and a goal against Swans to go with a pretty nice mid career....those pesky Hawks overrating players again....
That aside we get you love Billings and think he’s our A grader leading us into Premiership years ....apologies I do t share that delusion and don’t think the club does also gladly
I am all ears on how you plan to get us back into the draft this year in a meaningful way to regenerate our list though ? Or maybe you think this side is already top 4 and just had a bad year??
Will be fascinated to read your plan do enlighten us?
Oh by the way ...if JB goes to a better side I fully expect him to have a much better return and higher impact than at Saints....but still be the same player we can cover ...let me know when you work that out...


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Re: Reality Check and where we are at!!

Post by Ghost Like »

Teflon wrote: Sat 12 Jun 2021 3:33pm
Ghost Like wrote: Sat 12 Jun 2021 3:06pm Teflon, as JB's contract talks are worlds apart so are our beliefs on JB's value against another speculative draft pick.

All 3 points you made to pick apart my post made no sense except to say you've got a Hawthorn mate, congrats. You argue for Hawthorn's recruiting by quoting Port Adelaide. Then you talk about a contract negotiations that we all know is about what the Club is willing to match.

What the Club wants and what it ultimately gets is determined by a magical, secret formula determined by the AFL - I have no confidence that will work in our favour.

Of course I don't wish to pay overs because we've seen how that works out. If North wish to make another Polec mistake, good luck to them but I am quite confident that JB will play more quality football for them than Polec has.
And you once against just stated you don’t trust our recruiting or AFL
I understand you don’t get the points above so I’ll resist trying again to enlighten you., the old adage “battle of wits with an unarmed man” comes to mind....
I do note Mitchell had 31 and a goal against Swans to go with a pretty nice mid career....those pesky Hawks overrating players again....
That aside we get you love Billings and think he’s our A grader leading us into Premiership years ....apologies I do t share that delusion and don’t think the club does also gladly
I am all ears on how you plan to get us back into the draft this year in a meaningful way to regenerate our list though ? Or maybe you think this side is already top 4 and just had a bad year??
Will be fascinated to read your plan do enlighten us?
Oh by the way ...if JB goes to a better side I fully expect him to have a much better return and higher impact than at Saints....but still be the same player we can cover ...let me know when you work that out...
You are absolutely correct, I do not trust our recruiting or the AFL, especially when they have two bastard love children they need to service. You on the other hand are obviously very trusting, that must make you feel good.

In terms of a "battle of wits", I'm realistic enough to know it would end in a very boring nil all draw. The only hope of a score being an own goal.

I'm do believe I told you my plan so hopefully those memory pills kick in as I really hate repeating myself. I will say that it's not so much getting us back into the draft this year, it is praying we do not continue to knock ourselves out of future drafts.

I am annoyed that the recruiting staff, you trust so much, continue to act like a kid with their first credit card when it comes to future picks.


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