Team vs. Hawks

[Jacks Back]

It's good to see that, with all the half back flankers that we have recruited, richo is starting to fill the team up with them:

Named in the side as HBF - Gilbert, Newnes.
Actual HB Flankers - White, Savage, Webster, Coffield (has he been nominated for a rising star yet?) and maybe Geary (probably a back pocket though).

That's at least 6 players for 2 positions in this weekend's side.

[The Linton Street Flash]

Have you ever made or eaten mash potato without milk or cream or butter and salt?

It does the job still... fills you up, soaks up gravy, pads out meat Etc.

...it’s a hell of a lot better than starving, but it’s as bland as all f&@k!!

= Newnes!

[Ape_Man]

Every club has a good 'ol scapegoat or two. Seems like its now either Gilbo or Geary or Newnes....even noticed some Saints fans are having an unfair crack at Billings and Gresham now too.

So true, but us Saints fans have almost made a sport of it

It feels like after every loss there is a thread on one of the scapegoats.

Maybe Newnes' new nickname should be 'scape'. Or there should be a scapegoat vote each week so we can see who is the 'winner' at the end of each season.

I think Gilbert is a multiple 'Scaper' by now. A couple behind Raph.

[Ape_Man]

Have you ever made or eaten mash potato without milk or cream or butter and salt?

It does the job still... fills you up, soaks up gravy, pads out meat Etc.

...it’s a hell of a lot better than starving, but it’s as bland as all f&@k!!

= Newnes!

But it does the job.

I think that was your point.

[desertsaint]

With a few others here, I don’t get the Newnes hate.

He is more often good than bad but, I concede, his errors can be obvious.

I probably could understand better if his teammates around him were miles better and could land a Sherrin on a dime 9 times out of 10.

But I guess he is the next in line for the Raph, Gilbert and Geary scapegoat jumper. Maybe even a Jayson Daniels

Wouldn’t be a St Kilda team without one.

It's based on current form - on game averages this year he is 15th for effective disposals and 20th in disposal efficicency.
He aint playing well. he had one disposal from 3 possessions last game, so was hardly showing any kind of form before the injury. He averages less clearances than the likes of Bruce. Behind everyone that has run within cooee of a contest. 17th for intercepts. 17th for 1 percenters. And Dead last for tackles. Dead last!
He is in horrendous form this year. No two ways about it.
Needs to go to Sandy and find some form. Basically keeping others from getting a run.

[Ape_Man]

It's based on current form - he is 15th for effective disposals and 20th in disposal efficicency.
He aint playing well. he had one disposal from 3 possessions last game, so was hardly showing any kind of form before the injury. He averages less clearances than the likes of Bruce. Behind everyone that has run within cooee of a contest. 17th for intercepts. 17th for 1 percenters. And Dead last for tackles. Dead last!

He is in horrendous form this year. No two ways about it. Basically keeping others from getting a run.

I get that he isn't in the greatest form, my point was he get reamed so quickly on here every time he makes a mistake. I just don't believe that he is the worst player in the team every week.
His numbers aren't great, but they are not horrible either. Yes, his tackle count is abysmal, he's kicked 5 behinds and no goals, has a couple of clangers per game and his 1 percenters are low.

I think, personally, that his clearance count is irrelevant for his role even though he does get 2 a game. For me his 4 inside 50's per game (5 if you take out last week) and his 20 disposals are OK for his role.

But I do need to know how he only had 1 disposal from 3 possessions before he got injured last week? Is a disposal not a possession?

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he should get an automatic game every week. But I do want to know who is smashing the door down at Sandy to take his place?

[Yorkeys]

Someone who when given two options picks the best one more than 20% of the time. A new novelty bet is when will Jack hit a forward lace out, all up did he mean it. A spell in the VFL might be good for him as well as the team because he is just out of form/confidence. I suspect he will not play; if he was really concussed he would need a rest. L. Austin to debut. Newnes to come back better than ever is a couple of weeks.

[BackFromUSA]

High in metres gained and high in score assists says he makes good choices and looks for long rather than short options. He is playing the outside midfield role this year so yes his tackle count and clearances should be down as his role is to be the outrider. No doubt his knee surgery is behind a slight drop in form early this year but he is always looking to kick long to advantage rather than sideways and safe. Whilst it could be his knee I think the game plan had a lot to answer for - gets the ball in transition and looks up to see no structure or options forward. Result holds the balll longer than required and forced into shorter options in traffic. Was he butchering the ball or was there just not immediate targets there for him? Maybe a mix? His spearing pass into our forward 50 early last game proves he can also lower his eyes and hit up a target in forward 50. Judging over 100 games rather than the last 4 he is Mr Reliable. Would make my best 22 easily as able to play half back or outside midfielder.

[desertsaint]

We could use the game plan to excuse any of our backs and centres.

3 tackles. all year.

but lets look at 2017 then.
15th in tackles, 14th in disposal efficiency, 13th in clearances, 12th in one percenters,
15th in score involvments,
4th in clangers and turnovers.
high in metres gained but behind other back flankers like savage, joey, and roberton - all get the ball and boots it long, but he turns it over more.
doesn't take contested marks - averaged a third as many as billy longer last year!

I think we remember him as steady when we were struggling all over the field in 2013-15. Everyone has gone past him.
And he's a leader? It's a problem.
He needs to go back to Sandy - needed it last year - and find his form.

[BackFromUSA]

We could use the game plan to excuse any of our backs and centres.

3 tackles. all year.

but lets look at 2017 then.
15th in tackles, 14th in disposal efficiency, 13th in clearances, 12th in one percenters,
15th in score involvments,
4th in clangers and turnovers.
high in metres gained but behind other back flankers like savage, joey, and roberton - all get the ball and boots it long, but he turns it over more.
doesn't take contested marks - averaged a third as many as billy longer last year!

I think we remember him as steady when we were struggling all over the field in 2013-15. Everyone has gone past him.
And he's a leader? It's a problem.
He needs to go back to Sandy - needed it last year - and find his form.

Are those stats based on average per game played or totals for season?

[desertsaint]

averages. bar the three tackles. all year!

[stonecold]

We could use the game plan to excuse any of our backs and centres.

3 tackles. all year.

but lets look at 2017 then.
15th in tackles, 14th in disposal efficiency, 13th in clearances, 12th in one percenters,
15th in score involvments,
4th in clangers and turnovers.
high in metres gained but behind other back flankers like savage, joey, and roberton - all get the ball and boots it long, but he turns it over more.
doesn't take contested marks - averaged a third as many as billy longer last year!

I think we remember him as steady when we were struggling all over the field in 2013-15. Everyone has gone past him.
And he's a leader? It's a problem.
He needs to go back to Sandy - needed it last year - and find his form.

All very interesting stats when you break it down!!!!!

Also interesting that Rooey mentioned in commentary v cats I think, that metres gained is the most overrated stat in modern day footy!!!!!

So maybe if declared fit (still doubtful), Jack maybe on his last chance before Sandy comes calling!!!!!

[shrodes]

High in metres gained and high in score assists says he makes good choices and looks for long rather than short options. He is playing the outside midfield role this year so yes his tackle count and clearances should be down as his role is to be the outrider. No doubt his knee surgery is behind a slight drop in form early this year but he is always looking to kick long to advantage rather than sideways and safe. Whilst it could be his knee I think the game plan had a lot to answer for - gets the ball in transition and looks up to see no structure or options forward. Result holds the balll longer than required and forced into shorter options in traffic. Was he butchering the ball or was there just not immediate targets there for him? Maybe a mix? His spearing pass into our forward 50 early last game proves he can also lower his eyes and hit up a target in forward 50. Judging over 100 games rather than the last 4 he is Mr Reliable. Would make my best 22 easily as able to play half back or outside midfielder.

Our own Roo mentioned a week or two ago that metres gained was a highly misleading stat - particularly because of our team's propensity to bomb it long to either outnumbered contests or the opposition (Tom Stewart).

Actually in the past (maybe 2 years ago) I have considered him quite a good kick but perhaps because of our game plan those kicks are no longer on as there are no clear options downfield. Either way, I agree with others that he's been out of form, and particularly after a KO probably should have got the week off.

[saynta]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a late change - Newnes out with concussion and either Armo or Clark in.

Newnes is the coaches love child.

Never to be dropped.

He should’ve been dropped last week but clearly is a special case.

I’m sick of his shyte dusposal skills

SP, I've never been involved in an AFL Selection meeting, but I'd be absolutely staggered if any player was picked purely because they were the coach's 'love child'. I reckon that is just pure fan bs every time it is raised.
No coach is going to select any player just because they 'like' them.
The team selections, as I understand it, are made by a panel including those assistant coaches tasked with specific areas of the game.
It beggars belief that a head coach would overrule an assistant coach purely because the head coach 'liked' a player.
In the end the coaches 'live/die' on their own performances (actual and perceived) and to think they would jeopardise that employment to pick a player who didn't warrant selection just because they liked' him is, IMHO, fanciful.
The reason(s) certain players are selected may not be obvious to us but I'm certain there are reason(s) other than that player being 'liked' by the head coach.

Good sensible reply.

[Saintmatt]

High in metres gained and high in score assists says he makes good choices and looks for long rather than short options. He is playing the outside midfield role this year so yes his tackle count and clearances should be down as his role is to be the outrider. No doubt his knee surgery is behind a slight drop in form early this year but he is always looking to kick long to advantage rather than sideways and safe. Whilst it could be his knee I think the game plan had a lot to answer for - gets the ball in transition and looks up to see no structure or options forward. Result holds the balll longer than required and forced into shorter options in traffic. Was he butchering the ball or was there just not immediate targets there for him? Maybe a mix? His spearing pass into our forward 50 early last game proves he can also lower his eyes and hit up a target in forward 50. Judging over 100 games rather than the last 4 he is Mr Reliable. Would make my best 22 easily as able to play half back or outside midfielder.

I think your point about looking long rather than short is part of the problem. To be fair - I'm not a Newnes fan but I'd kill to be. He looks like he can do it all - good runner and a good looking kick. Sadly - his kicking effectiveness however, is abysmal. His short kicks are loopy without penetration and his long kicks simply miss too many targets. His long, blazing-away bomb late against Geelong was a case in point - he had Paddy cold 20m out yet decided to look long and blaze for goal. You could hear in Roo's voice commentating that (rightly) he just wanted to give him a massive bake. Perhaps he's a victim of a complicated gameplan but seriously, kicking long to Tom Stewart seemed to be the gameplan that day. Maybe he was executing the game plan then after all.

I've always thought he was best suited to a link-up, run and carry wingman who tackles and if he could hit a short target (a la J Sinclair) more often then run to be the link in the next chain of possession then he'd be far more damaging this this present version.

Some time at VFL level - whilst I guess an embarrassing demotion from the leadership group (what a load of bollocks that is) - would do him the world of good.

Personally, I'm not seeing us doing much challenging for anything this year so, I'd rather Hunter Clark get some games into him (until he drops from fatigue) ahead of this present version of Newnes.

[remboy]

Every club has a good 'ol scapegoat or two. Seems like its now either Gilbo or Geary or Newnes....even noticed some Saints fans are having an unfair crack at Billings and Gresham now too.

So true, but us Saints fans have almost made a sport of it

It feels like after every loss there is a thread on one of the scapegoats.

Maybe Newnes' new nickname should be 'scape'. Or there should be a scapegoat vote each week so we can see who is the 'winner' at the end of each season.

I think Gilbert is a multiple 'Scaper' by now. A couple behind Raph.

Maybe 'scapegoat' should be an actual position when the teams are named each week so supporters know who to get stuck into.

[stonecold]

Every club has a good 'ol scapegoat or two. Seems like its now either Gilbo or Geary or Newnes....even noticed some Saints fans are having an unfair crack at Billings and Gresham now too.

So true, but us Saints fans have almost made a sport of it

It feels like after every loss there is a thread on one of the scapegoats.

Maybe Newnes' new nickname should be 'scape'. Or there should be a scapegoat vote each week so we can see who is the 'winner' at the end of each season.

I think Gilbert is a multiple 'Scaper' by now. A couple behind Raph.

Maybe 'scapegoat' should be an actual position when the teams are named each week so supporters know who to get stuck into.

Wouldn't have enough positions available, if you ask some on this forum!!!!!;)

[Sainter_Dad]

Wouldn't have enough positions available, if you ask some on this forum!!!!!;)

Of course there would - one for each line:

B: Brown
HB: Geary
C: Dunstan/Armo
HF: Weller
F: Paddy
R: Longer
I: Take your pick
Coach: Richo
Gameplan: Ahhh - here is the real story!

[samoht]

15th in tackles, 14th in disposal efficiency, 13th in clearances, 12th in one percenters,
15th in score involvments,

Re:disposal efficiency -
We've had this discussion before and I asked then (and i'm asking you again) if you could please rank Newnes against the regular 22 players. The way you're rating him - yes he's 14th in disposal efficiency, but it's vs 35 or so players, some of whom may only have played fewer than 3 games over the whole year, or vs Longer and Brown who average 1 to 5 kicks respectively.
Let's be fair and rank him against the other regular players who average 10 kicks or more per game - and who don't just chip it around , as Brown with his handful of kicks (maybe 3-5 at best) would.
If you were to do that, and if you were to remove all the noise - and make a valid and fair assessment, you'd probably find he's probably in the top 60% or better, as far as disposal efficiency goes - and ahead of Steven and Ross's disposal efficiency. We have a lot of butchers at St Kilda - Newnes is one of our leading "score involves" players, which means he has a good football brain and uses the ball well - in that he gets it to the right spots - and either starts or is involved in a lot of good chains.
15th in score involvements - I don't think so. You'll find he is well clear of Savage (who plays in a similar position) - please do a head to head and post it on here. Savage is the best kick in our team - but he doesn't get the ball to the spots that he should - Newnes has it all over him on picking the right or better options. The point is, you could be the best kick in the world, but do you choose the right option? No use kicking it accurately to a bad option!!!

[desertsaint]

Okay - here you go. 20th actually in 2018.


Disposal efficiency
1. Nathan Brown 5 93.55
2 Josh Bruce 3 85.69
3 Nicholas Coffield 3 84.89
4 Jake Carlisle 5 83.33
5 Jack Steele 4 82.50
6 Jarryn Geary 5 79.05
7 Shane Savage 5 78.63
8 Tom Hickey 2 78.12
9 Jade Gresham 5 76.62
10 Hunter Clark 3 75.80
11 Sebastian Ross 5 75.36
12 Brandon White 3 74.38
13 Blake Acres 5 74.38
14 Dylan Roberton 4 73.77
15 Jimmy Webster 3 73.53
16 Luke Dunstan 3 73.32
17 Ben Long 5 73.13
18 David Armitage 3 70.32
19 Koby Stevens 2 69.05
20 Jack Newnes. 5. 67.42

[samoht]

Okay - here you go. 20th actually in 2018.


Disposal efficiency
1. Nathan Brown 5 93.55
2 Josh Bruce 3 85.69
3 Nicholas Coffield 3 84.89
4 Jake Carlisle 5 83.33
5 Jack Steele 4 82.50
6 Jarryn Geary 5 79.05
7 Shane Savage 5 78.63
8 Tom Hickey 2 78.12
9 Jade Gresham 5 76.62
10 Hunter Clark 3 75.80
11 Sebastian Ross 5 75.36
12 Brandon White 3 74.38
13 Blake Acres 5 74.38
14 Dylan Roberton 4 73.77
15 Jimmy Webster 3 73.53
16 Luke Dunstan 3 73.32
17 Ben Long 5 73.13
18 David Armitage 3 70.32
19 Koby Stevens 2 69.05
20 Jack Newnes. 5. 67.42

'

You need to look over the whole year - look at 2017! Rank Newnes vs the regular 22 players who played more than 10 games over 2017, and who have averaged more than 10 kicks per game.
Newnes is recovering from a procedure this year - and there hasn't been a significant number of games played to form an opinion over any of the above players, so far this year (based on a handful of games)
Please don't include the chippers like Brown who probably only averages 3 kicks per game (all chips).

[desertsaint]

And here you go - I'd take Savage thanks.

Player Statistics Comparison
Shane Savage Name Jack Newnes

2018 Stats for Season 2018
5 Games 5
16.6 Kicks Per Game 12.0
6.8 Handballs Per Game 5.8
23.4 Disposals Per Game 17.8
5.8 Marks Per Game 4.0
0 Goals Per Game 0
0.4 Behinds Per Game 1.0
2.4 Tackles Per Game 0.6
0 Hitouts Per Game 0
2.6 Inside 50s Per Game 4.4
0 Goal Assists Per Game 0
1.0 Frees For Per Game 1.0
1.2 Frees Against Per Game 1.2
4.2 Contested Possessions Per Game 4.8
19.6 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 13.6
18.4 Effective Disposals Per Game 12.0
78.6% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 67.4%
2.4 Clangers Per Game 2.6
0 Contested Marks Per Game 0.2
0 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.2
0.4 Clearances Per Game 1.6
3.4 Rebound 50s Per Game 2.0
2.2 One Percenters Per Game 1.8
2.4 Bounces Per Game 0.8
86.8 Time On Ground % Per Game 73.0
0.2 Centre Clearances Per Game 0.4
0.2 Stoppage Clearances Per Game 1.2
3.8 Score Involvements Per Game 4.4
461.4 Metres Gained Per Game 312.4
5.6 Turnovers Per Game 4.0
4.4 Intercepts Per Game 2.4
0 Tackles Inside 50 Per Game 0
$610,000 AFL Fantasy Price $508,000
88.2 AFL Fantasy Score Per Game 60.4
$497,000 Supercoach Price $381,200

[Ape_Man]

Okay - here you go. 20th actually in 2018.


Disposal efficiency
1. Nathan Brown 5 93.55
2 Josh Bruce 3 85.69
3 Nicholas Coffield 3 84.89
4 Jake Carlisle 5 83.33
5 Jack Steele 4 82.50
6 Jarryn Geary 5 79.05
7 Shane Savage 5 78.63
8 Tom Hickey 2 78.12
9 Jade Gresham 5 76.62
10 Hunter Clark 3 75.80
11 Sebastian Ross 5 75.36
12 Brandon White 3 74.38
13 Blake Acres 5 74.38
14 Dylan Roberton 4 73.77
15 Jimmy Webster 3 73.53
16 Luke Dunstan 3 73.32
17 Ben Long 5 73.13
18 David Armitage 3 70.32
19 Koby Stevens 2 69.05
20 Jack Newnes. 5. 67.42

I can’t help but notice another Jack is missing from this list.

Must be time for Stuv to get a run at Sandy if this list is anything to go by.

[samoht]

OK. .. I give up. I'm logging off.

When you find the time ----
You need to look over the whole year - look at 2017! Rank Newnes vs the regular 22 players who played more than 10 games over 2017, and who have averaged more than 10 kicks per game.
Newnes is recovering from a procedure this year - and there hasn't been a significant number of games played to form an opinion over any of the above players, so far this year (based on a handful of games)
Please don't include the chippers like Brown who probably only averages 3 kicks per game (all chips).

[desertsaint]

Okay - here you go. 20th actually in 2018.


Disposal efficiency
1. Nathan Brown 5 93.55
2 Josh Bruce 3 85.69
3 Nicholas Coffield 3 84.89
4 Jake Carlisle 5 83.33
5 Jack Steele 4 82.50
6 Jarryn Geary 5 79.05
7 Shane Savage 5 78.63
8 Tom Hickey 2 78.12
9 Jade Gresham 5 76.62
10 Hunter Clark 3 75.80
11 Sebastian Ross 5 75.36
12 Brandon White 3 74.38
13 Blake Acres 5 74.38
14 Dylan Roberton 4 73.77
15 Jimmy Webster 3 73.53
16 Luke Dunstan 3 73.32
17 Ben Long 5 73.13
18 David Armitage 3 70.32
19 Koby Stevens 2 69.05
20 Jack Newnes. 5. 67.42

'

You need to look over the whole year - look at 2017! Rank Newnes vs the regular 22 players who played more than 10 games over 2017, and who have averaged more than 10 kicks per game.
Newnes is recovering from a procedure this year - and there hasn't been a significant number of games played to form an opinion over any of the above players, so far this year (based on a handful of games)
Please don't include the chippers like Brown who probably only averages 3 kicks per game (all chips).

Look if you're trying to justify Newnes then you can find and chop and change stats to suit - i'd rather put the stats out for all to look at and decide for themselves. Simple fact is he has had a very poor 2017 and 2018. Almost every supporter can see it, I'm sure the club is aware of it, and Jack certainly is. He needs to improve. He aint alone in that, but most aren't leaders of the club.