We need to fix this and fast.

[damienc]

I wasn't going to post because I've already read a lot of very good opinions from others on this site.

Opinions I wholeheartedly agree with.

The change of mind is born from pure frustration. I'm bloody frustrated. Our footy team is driving me nuts.

Our victories this year are a contradiction. We've revealed great strengths and, at the same time, glaring weaknesses. Against quality opposition those weaknesses are bigger and more evident.

The last two weeks are a big worry. The coach says we're nowhere near it. Nowhere near where we want to be and most importantly nowhere near the really good sides in the competition.

This is a crazy competition. The sides, this year are incredibly even. We thrash Hawthorn. They beat Sydney. We get thrashed by Sydney.

Putting that to one side I just don't understand what is happening with our team. We do so well in some things. We show some real signs of improvement. You can see it. We've got a much better midfield and defence. A lot of people are critical of Billy Longer but I'm going to stick up for him. As a ruckman against the dogs you couldn't fault him. He was one of our extremely few shining lights. He was single handedly magnificent. He won 55 hit outs, comprehensively out classing Roughhead and Boyd. With those kinds of stats we should have dominated and won the game but we didn't. The Dogs out thought us.

We are getting better at winning contested possession. No doubt about that. But our contested possession wins come to nothing because we cough it up to the opposition with poor decision making and poor disposal. We play like we have no forward plan. I'm sure we do but I can't for the life of me see it or understand it. Our forward entries look as if the players are wearing blindfolds. No strategy, no plan no thought. Really the only positive against the Dogs was Paddy who's slowly finding his feet playing AFL footy.

At the moment, we give ourselves no chance and instead gift the Opposition the opportunity to rebound and hurt us. And for the past weeks they have. I thought there might have been some improvement after the Sydney game. There wasn't. We need to fix this and fix it fast. No good blaming just Richo. The club has many coaches. They're all to blame. Bringing back Bruce would not have fixed it. He needs to regain his form.


In stark contrast, the Dogs were able to get a chain of forward movement happening. A number of players combining to move the ball into attack. We play like a bunch of strangers, who don't really know each other. Or don't really know how to combine as one potent force. Anyway that's how it looks to me.

On present form we don't stand a chance against Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Essendon, Richmond or North Melbourne. It needs to be sorted because we won't be going anywhere until we do.

[saintsRrising]

You can see it. We've got a much better midfield and defence. .

Defence Yes. Gaining Carlisle and Brown has allowed our flankers to play as flankers.


Midfield. Yes we are deeper, but not really better yet. Remember too that we a have so far lost Armo.

We are also playing more younger and inexperienced players who are learning. They are not established.

- With Steele 21 remember that he has only played 27 games and at GWS he did not really play there. So he is leraning on the job now. I believe he has a lot of upside as he gains more mifield experience.
- Acres 21 is now getting more time there, but again has only played 35 games.
- Sinclair 22 has now been added to the midfield mix. But only 3 of his 32 games have been at AFL Level. Last year part way through the club started to play him more and more as a mid at VFL level.

With such youth it is not just their use of the ball that should improve with more games, but also that they will learn how to better position themselves to receive the ball.


Good hope with this group though as look at Ross now at 24 years and 69 games who is pulling good numbers. We are still very much developing our midfield.
Grsham, 19 and 28 games, may become a mid too. But word has it that he simply lacks the tank. Billings 21 and 52 games may also rotate through the midfield more as he builds his tank and robustness of his body.

We do however need an out and out gun mid, and probably two, if we want to be a genuine contender. And I believe taht this has been pretty well acknowledged by many posters over the last few years.


PS: Yes I think that we have some gameplan issues too. Opposition Clubs our now better at combating how we play.

[saynta]

I wasn't going to post because I've already read a lot of very good opinions from others on this site.

Opinions I wholeheartedly agree with.

The change of mind is born from pure frustration. I'm bloody frustrated. Our footy team is driving me nuts.

Our victories this year are a contradiction. We've revealed great strengths and, at the same time, glaring weaknesses. Against quality opposition those weaknesses are bigger and more evident.

The last two weeks are a big worry. The coach says we're nowhere near it. Nowhere near where we want to be and most importantly nowhere near the really good sides in the competition.

This is a crazy competition. The sides, this year are incredibly even. We thrash Hawthorn. They beat Sydney. We get thrashed by Sydney.

Putting that to one side I just don't understand what is happening with our team. We do so well in some things. We show some real signs of improvement. You can see it. We've got a much better midfield and defence. A lot of people are critical of Billy Longer but I'm going to stick up for him. As a ruckman against the dogs you couldn't fault him. He was one of our extremely few shining lights. He was single handedly magnificent. He won 55 hit outs, comprehensively out classing Roughhead and Boyd. With those kinds of stats we should have dominated and won the game but we didn't. The Dogs out thought us.

We are getting better at winning contested possession. No doubt about that. But our contested possession wins come to nothing because we cough it up to the opposition with poor decision making and poor disposal. We play like we have no forward plan. I'm sure we do but I can't for the life of me see it or understand it. Our forward entries look as if the players are wearing blindfolds. No strategy, no plan no thought. Really the only positive against the Dogs was Paddy who's slowly finding his feet playing AFL footy.

At the moment, we give ourselves no chance and instead gift the Opposition the opportunity to rebound and hurt us. And for the past weeks they have. I thought there might have been some improvement after the Sydney game. There wasn't. We need to fix this and fix it fast. No good blaming just Richo. The club has many coaches. They're all to blame. Bringing back Bruce would not have fixed it. He needs to regain his form.


In stark contrast, the Dogs were able to get a chain of forward movement happening. A number of players combining to move the ball into attack. We play like a bunch of strangers, who don't really know each other. Or don't really know how to combine as one potent force. Anyway that's how it looks to me.

On present form we don't stand a chance against Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Essendon, Richmond or North Melbourne. It needs to be sorted because we won't be going anywhere until we do.

[saynta]

The saints at present appear to me to play like a suburban or country team.

They only pass the ball to their mates and not the player in the best position to receive.

I lost count of the number of times this happened on saturday.

Unbelievable.

[borderbarry]

Passing to their mates... Sinclair and Billings are guilty of that. You can see they have a good understanding between them.

[Wrote for Luck]

We've gone from a fast paced style to a wannabe methodical move the ball around find the open man and switch whenever possible style with useless handball chains that embarrassingly don't come off.

Seemed to make the transition for the Carlton game, to beat them at their own game, instead of backing ours in. And have been stuck in this pig plop ever since.

We were better when not thinking too much, playing on, thrusting forward with big marking options; Roo, Membrey, Paddy, and Bruce. Then the scramblers would rove. Roberton off the chain bursting through. How good was it going to be! We won the pre season comp on the back of it.

I seriously don't know how we made such an ordinary wrong turn.

[saintspremiers]

We've gone from a fast paced style to a wannabe methodical move the ball around find the open man and switch whenever possible style with useless handball chains that embarrassingly don't come off.

Seemed to make the transition for the Carlton game, to beat them at their own game, instead of backing ours in. And have been stuck in this pig plop ever since.

We were better when not thinking too much, playing on, thrusting forward with big marking options; Roo, Membrey, Paddy, and Bruce. Then the scramblers would rove. Roberton off the chain bursting through. How good was it going to be! We won the pre season comp on the back of it.

I seriously don't know how we made such an ordinary wrong turn.

That's accurate. But is run and gun sustainable? You can't play that style week in week out. It's too hard as brutal for any team let alone a young team like ours.

Perhaps the last 2 weeks we were biding our time before the bye and waiting to reset post bye. Sounds an odd concept but maybe that's how you manage a developing list effectively.

Add in some cream over the next 2 trading periods and come the 2019 season it's all looking very solid.

[Devilhead]

There are a few players that need to seriously pull their fingers out - not naming names

No doubt the coaches must take some of the blame but simple skill errors are hurting us badly

I just watched Richo's presser and I got the feeling that he was quietly seething underneath cause he knows we can match it with any of the top 8 sides if we could only reduce the amount of basic unforced errors

[saintspremiers]

There are a few players that need to seriously pull their fingers out - not naming names

No doubt the coaches must take some of the blame but simple skill errors are hurting us badly

I just watched Richo's presser and I got the feeling that he was quietly seething underneath cause he knows we can match it with any of the top 8 sides if we could only reduce the amount of basic unforced errors

Spot on. Richo' body language was that of a volcano with its lid about to blow off. I guess these YouTube clips each week can't be too negative - they are just public forum spin peaces but he's not an actor and can't hide it all.

[St Lenny]

It frustrates me that players are considered as playing well just because they get a lot of possessions. When they butcher the ball, its not good play. What is happening with Mav, terrible this year, I think he needs a rest in the VFL. It was like no one on the forward line wanted the ball in the last quarter.

[SemperFidelis]

[quote="Devilhead"]There are a few players that need to seriously pull their fingers out - not naming names

No doubt the coaches must take some of the blame but simple skill errors are hurting us badly

I just watched Richo's presser and I got the feeling that he was quietly seething underneath cause he knows we can match it with any of the top 8 sides if we could only reduce the amount of basic unforced errors[/quote

This. Take out the unforced errors and the last two weeks were close games. Because they're errors I'm at a loss to know how we fixed them, but hoping (and a little bit of praying) that the break gives us a bit of insight and space to reboot

[Con Gorozidis]

Is it trolling if I say Montagna is no good?
Just watched the replay and he makes error after error after error.

[White Winmar]

As much as I hate to say it, Con, I think his time is almost up. Like the paddle boat operator, it might be time to call, "number 11, your time is up. Return to base."

[mad saint guy]

Is it trolling if I say Montagna is no good?
Just watched the replay and he makes error after error after error.

Unfortunately I think you're right. He gets a lot of the ball because he knows where to run to get cheap handballs but he is such a weak link defensively and his ball use isn't as good as it used to be; he takes too long to get rid of it and his dinky little kicks often hang in the air for too long. I'd much prefer Savage to stay in the team - he doesn't get quite as much of the footy but he is better defensively and his kicking is a genuine weapon.

[Vazelos]

There have been many things alarming about the last two weeks. We seemed to have lost our way in terms of what football team we want to be. From fast and play on football to slow possession based sideways football.
There was one infuriating and completely alarming piece of play when Membrey was just outside the 50 with Mc Cartin and Carlisle in the goal square one on one with their opponents. He stopped, propped, looked at them twice and decided not to kick the ball quickly to them. What he was waiting for only he knows. Players subsequently got back in the square to fill the space and he then eventually got the ball there in a crowded goal square funnily enough it luckily spilled off some hands to Newnes at the back of the pack who scored the goal.
Do these guys get coached so much they lose common sense and their instinct?!!!
Many times I saw the best option not taken for a player trying to kick out of defence, ball carrier waits and hesitates and then the opposition man up and there is simply no where to go.
Our opponents have tagged Roberton and we have lost our run.
Outside class ball users we don't have it's as simple as that.

[bigcarl]

We've gone from a fast paced style to a wannabe methodical move the ball around find the open man and switch whenever possible style with useless handball chains that embarrassingly don't come off.

Seemed to make the transition for the Carlton game, to beat them at their own game, instead of backing ours in. And have been stuck in this pig plop ever since.

We were better when not thinking too much, playing on, thrusting forward with big marking options; Roo, Membrey, Paddy, and Bruce. Then the scramblers would rove. Roberton off the chain bursting through. How good was it going to be! We won the pre season comp on the back of it.

I seriously don't know how we made such an ordinary wrong turn.

Good post.

Our forward structure is no good without Bruce so they dick around with the ball instead of getting it in there fast.

He must come back in for structure's sake alone, and not at the expense of Paddy. We need them both. Riewoldt when he's fit can play wing.

I also want them to stick Acres right in the guts at the clearances with Ross, Steven and Steele. Then we are away.

[freely]

At our best (with backline working - which it usually does, and hopefully will again with Webster back after the bye), we still break down getting it into the forward line. Even when we get it in - and this especially when Roo is playing forward - our forwards continually spoil each other. Even our small forwards spoil each other!! I really think we need some smarter forward coaching - we don't seem to play to complement each other. It's every man for himself.

The other thing we're incapable of in the forward 50, is snapping a goal. And when there's so much congestion these days, seems to me that's a massively valuable skill to work on. Do we?

[St Chris]

Is it trolling if I say Montagna is no good?
Just watched the replay and he makes error after error after error.

I made this same observation - he turned the ball over as much as anyone in the first half and early in the third. But I watched him closer after that, and he improved late in the game.

I think if White had come back from off-season in better shape, then Joey would be playing some VFL footy this year - he's the most obvious replacement.

[dragit]

At our best (with backline working - which it usually does, and hopefully will again with Webster back after the bye), we still break down getting it into the forward line. Even when we get it in - and this especially when Roo is playing forward - our forwards continually spoil each other. Even our small forwards spoil each other!! I really think we need some smarter forward coaching - we don't seem to play to complement each other. It's every man for himself.

The other thing we're incapable of in the forward 50, is snapping a goal. And when there's so much congestion these days, seems to me that's a massively valuable skill to work on. Do we?

Agree with this, even when we playing well it was a pretty kamikaze approach to kicking goals… Richo loves a good re-entry and who doesn't, but we can't rely on this as a system to win games… bomb it in, rebound 50, bomb it in again and hope that everyone is disorganised and we can scrap a goal, it's probably partly why we kicked so many points this year too with so many manic scrap entries.

We have to get smarter with entries and one player up for a mark.

[samoht]

We need players who can make things happen - to stop us from handballing the ball around in circles.

Our kicking skills go out the door when we're under any sort of pressure - and our midfield - while batting deep - defaults to handballing back and forth rather than kicking... so we're not getting the required midfield drive.
We need a fit 2015 Armo - who would just barrel or sidestep his way through the congestion to make something happen.

We need a couple of break-through midfielders like that - like Armo 2015 - who take the game on - maybe a Dustin Martin, or someone of his ilk next year, and for Acres to go to the next level, consistently?

We're also missing Webster - his speed and poise and long rebound to someone deep. He certainly makes things happen.

And a fit and bouncing Roo would obviously help.

[stkfc1]

At our best (with backline working - which it usually does, and hopefully will again with Webster back after the bye), we still break down getting it into the forward line. Even when we get it in - and this especially when Roo is playing forward - our forwards continually spoil each other. Even our small forwards spoil each other!! I really think we need some smarter forward coaching - we don't seem to play to complement each other. It's every man for himself.

The other thing we're incapable of in the forward 50, is snapping a goal. And when there's so much congestion these days, seems to me that's a massively valuable skill to work on. Do we?

Agree with this, even when we playing well it was a pretty kamikaze approach to kicking goals… Richo loves a good re-entry and who doesn't, but we can't rely on this as a system to win games… bomb it in, rebound 50, bomb it in again and hope that everyone is disorganised and we can scrap a goal, it's probably partly why we kicked so many points this year too with so many manic scrap entries.

We have to get smarter with entries and one player up for a mark.

If we are going to bomb it long then where are our crumbers/small forwards? If we dont take a mark it goes straight out our F50 at the moment. Weller nowhere to be seen, Gresh occasionally. I think we are missing Wright up forward, Webster down back and Bruce for structure. I wouldn't mind even Bruce going back and Carlise forward just to see if that works. Finally the ruck. Longer isnt AFL standard. Besides tap outs he's next to useless. We mght as well play with17 men on the field. Its a shame as I had high hopes for him. I know hes still young but he's shown nothing. Hickey comes straight back in when ready.

[MC Gusto]

tend to agree with the thrid para from the OP.

where we were poorest this weekend was entry into the fwd 50. we seemed to move the ball ok out of the middle or alternatively out of defence, but that last kick into the f50 was terrible. Then to to really add salt to the wound that poor kick would often be rebounded all the way to a doggies goal. It was awful, we are the absolute kings of the two goal turnaround.

[saintsRrising]

It is almost like our season finished after that last outstanding quarter against GWS.

The "good" Saints have not been seen since.


Since that quarter we have been error, slow to move the ball and when we do it is indirect.

Teams switch play to open things up and to create options. We are so slow to switch that our players are all mainly covered and so we just lose ground.

Our confidence has plummeted and with that has come hesitation, poor skills and poor decisions.

[stonecold]

It is almost like our season finished after that last outstanding quarter against GWS.

The "good" Saints have not been seen since.


Since that quarter we have been error, slow to move the ball and when we do it is indirect.

Teams switch play to open things up and to create options. We are so slow to switch that our players are all mainly covered and so we just lose ground.

Our confidence has plummeted and with that has come hesitation, poor skills and poor decisions.

Todays AFL, if your 5% off, you lose, we're about 15% off at the minute!!!!!

Break has come at the best time for us, don't give up yet!!!!!

[longtimesaint]

I have been watching the last time we played well against GWS and a couple of things came to notice.
While Bruce was not getting many marks or goals he was doing a power of work in contesting every contest, and both bringing the ball to ground as well as helping to keep it in our forward area.
At the other end Webster was a driving force from the backline with accurate disposal.
I think having both Bruce and Webster missing has contributed to our poor performances in the last two weeks.
Against Sydney we also lost Newnes and so lost nearly all our run off half-back.